To stop my mum?!!

[nicetoseeyoutoseeyounice]

My mum is pressuring my nan to sell her house and move in with her. She's been pushing the issue for a few years now and my nan always says yeh maybe, just to appease her. But she really doesn't want to move. We have spoken about it many times and she always says she likes her independence and her home is the only place she feels close to her late husband.

Basically last week my nan hadn't been well. Just bad tummy reaction to some medication she's on and was feeling quite down. My mum kept asking her to move in and she sounded like she was considering it. Then bam, next day my mum has had a quote for a builder for £21,000 to build an annexe in the garden for her to live in and has organised an estate agent to value nans house. She's expecting my nan to sell her house and fork out the money to build the thing.

But the thing is, mum took in her MIL before she died and absolutely rinsed her dry. Made her pay rent and bills, food, got a new car out of her and tumble dryer. Since her MIL died she's spent all the inheritance (it was a lot of money! Im talking several hundred grand) and looks like she's trying to get everything she can out of her own mum now. I never said anything when my other nan was alive and it still grates on me. I don't want the same to happen to this one. So I phoned her this morning to see how she was and mentioned what my mum had said. Just as I thought, she still doesn't want to move and is so stressed out about my mum that she's not been sleeping. She doesn't know how to get out of it and mum is coming to visit her at the weekend to get the house on the market!!

I don't want this to cause a rift between me and my mum but I can't sit back and let her take advantage. Aibu to get involved? If she really wanted to move I would support her either way but she doesn't want to give up her home and my mum and nan arnt even close. I keep in touch with her more than my mum does. I just don't think her intentions are genuine. Argh. I think I might have to confront my mum on this one.

[maggiecate]

Should say as well, the POA doesn't have to become active as soon as it's drawn up. It can just be kept until it's needed, when your nan is unable to manage herself. There are very strict rules about what can and can't be done, so it's an excellent tool for safeguarding someone.

[ThePants999]

My mum isn't a bad person, she just has some questionable morals!!

This line amuses me greatly. Aren't questionable morals the very definition of a bad person?

[wibblywobblywoo]

While I can see it would be sensible for me to go for POA and to help her protect her will, I don't want to give her the impression that I want control of her money as I don't want it. She can leave it all to her neighbours cat if she wants to! Does that make sense?

Of course it does! It is awkward sometimes to have these sort of convos even in the best of circs but when there are issues as well, such as your Mum looming in the background ready to whisk Nan away and separate her from all her hard earned cash then it's even more of a loaded situation because you don't want to sound like your Mum! The will suggestion was more so that Nan can be assured that if your Mum does try anything, like getting her to 'sign here' on some spurious pretext Nan can say 'I've done a proper will you know.....this won't supersede it or change anything....' so if you do want to discuss that with Nan perhaps take that tack - that having a will done - leaving everything completely as she wishes regardless of what those wishes are, is peace of mind for her in that respect - the ongoing issue of your Mum pestering her to move is another matter - a PP suggested getting a solicitors letter sent to your Mum laying out that she, your Nan, does not want to move - could cause familial grief but might that be better than having this go on and on with nan getting more and more stressed by it all?

I suppose it all rests on how far your Mum will take things.............

[emmyrose2000]

Could/would your mum go so far as to falsify your nan's signature on a house sales contract? I'm getting the impression it's not out of the question.

Your mum doesn't sound like a nice person at all. Depression is no excuse for behaving like she does, especially as she conned your other grandmother out of her money. Even if her actions were technically legal (and it's hard to say exactly from the OP), she was morally bankrupt in her dealings with her MIL. She really needs to be reported/investigated for elder abuse.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I think as long as you make it clear that a) you dont want her money and b) you are not asking her to give you or your siblings POA, then you should be able to get across that all you are doing is advising her to protect herself while she can.

You gran sounds sensible and so it probably quite pragmatic about such things. You are probably more squeamish about discussing her potential loss of faculties than she is!

"Gran, I love you and I dont want you to think that I want anything from you other than your love for me. But I am worried that mum is going to try and take advantage of you as she did her MIL, and I think it would be a good idea to sort your will and POA now, so that she doesnt get the chance to do that" and then let her make her decisions safe in the knowledge that if she wants to make the neighbours cat a rich feline, then you support her.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Could/would your mum go so far as to falsify your nan's signature on a house sales contract? I'm getting the impression it's not out of the question.

Very very good point......"oooh she has been getting very forgetful lately....."

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Also (sorry!) but is it actually depression? Or is it a reaction to being found out/called out/said no to?

Seems a bit of a coincidence that her "depression" only kicks in when things dont go her way or someone disagrees with her.

[nicetoseeyoutoseeyounice]

She has been on meds for years for her depression so it is genuine. What I meant was because of her MH we are supposed to not do anything to upset her. She's always quite up and down I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually bipolar that she has.

[Needmoresleep]

The land registry have a free alert service. Sign up to it and you will be informed if anyone tries to sell your nans house. It's on the land registry website.

[nicetoseeyoutoseeyounice]

She wouldn't do anything illegal like falsifying documents as she's a Christian and believe it or not she can justify being greedy and bullying my nan by pretending it's in her best interests but she would never knowingly do anything illegal. She's very religious. Which is what baffles me about her moral compass.

[Alice212]

Well there's no link between religion and moral compass.

Btw my sister just said something to me today re trying not to upset me due to my depression issues. Thing is, I would still expect to be told if I upset someone etc. Sorry but there's a chance your mother is milking her depression?

[Alice212]

PS she probably won't do anything illegal because of the punishments. What she did to your other gran sounds appalling.
Sorry this must be hard to hear

[maggiecate]

If she tries the 'nan signed this but has now forgotten' then she's shooting herself in the foot, because if Nan can't remember signing stuff then she isn't in a fit state to manage her affairs and the document would be of limited value as it could be challenged in the court of protection if necessary.

Make sure your Nan knows that you've got her back - that should help stiffen her resolve in the short term. Don't get into a confrontation with your mum, just go ahead and get all your ducks in a row - you know what she's going to say so there's no point having the argument, it won't resolve anything.

As soon as possible get an independent person (not family, someone completely disinterested) to speak to your Nan and get on record what she wants and probably more importantly what she doesn't want.
If a POA does get set up don't be the only person - make sure that there's at least one other so you're protected from any accusations; as I said above, a lawyer or professional advocate of some sort is ideal.

You sound like a fabulous granddaughter, and it must be a huge comfort to your Nan that you're there for her.

[emmyrose2000]

She wouldn't do anything illegal like falsifying documents as she's a Christian and believe it or not she can justify being greedy and bullying my nan by pretending it's in her best interests but she would never knowingly do anything illegal. She's very religious. Which is what baffles me about her moral compass

Some of the most immoral people I know use their religious beliefs as a way to excuse their very definite immoral and illegal behaviour. In fact, these days, I'm more inclined to believe the more religious claims to be, the more likely they are they are to be morally bankrupt.

Depression or other MH issues aren't an excuse for people to get away with behaving badly. I know a few people with depression and none of them act badly, or at least use it as an excuse on the very rare occasions they do do something out of the norm. If people are pandering to your mum because of her MH issues, then they are enabling her bad behaviour and/or she's using it as a form of emotional blackmail.

Your nan has to come first here, regardless of anything your mum feels or says.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

She has mental health problems. Perhaps bipolar. I realise bipolar would account for the spending.

She's using this as an excuse and sounds very manipulative. Her behaviour isn't acceptable and your father has no right to tell you to back off on this. He enabled her with his own mother and saw "his" inheritance blown. That was his choice and in his place, you appreciate he should have stepped in. If he's not even going to advocate for his own mother, he's not going to do it for his mil. So someone needs to. And good on you.

She may not be all bad. But she's definitely not Snow White. She's done this before and has already been taking advantage of her mother for years. She's now really upping the anti to get her hands on her mother's money. This is very calculated. Make no mistake. And if your grandma agrees to all this and then doesn't toe the line, what's to prevent your mother from bleeding her dry then throwing her out? She's even got the best get out clause going, which no one is challenging her on: Bless her, she couldn't cope anymore and can blame it on her mental health. And your grandma could be left penniless and homeless.

[AngelsOnHigh]

This is abuse of the elderly. You need to get professional help now. Nan's GP should be the first point of call.

Abuse of the elderly is becoming a very serious problem as the population ages. Most aged care assessors will tell you that moving an elderly person from their familiar environment and surroundings ultimately ends in the rapid decline of the aged persons health.

Your nan doesn't deserve this and you need to point this out to your mum in a non emotional, professional way. (Very difficult I know but it must be done as a matter of urgency).

[MiniCooperLover]

I imagine if you were able to obtain POA to help your nan as and when needed the urgent need by your mum to move her would just disappear ...

[r0tringLover]

You seem like a nice person trying hard to do the best for your nan in a difficult situation.

I don't have any direct advice other than to say, sometimes the reight thing to do is the toughest. A difficult conversation with your nan and your Mum finding out exactly what you're concerned about. I guess, it's time to woman up. It sounds like you are and good luck.

One thing I'd suggest you get information about, before sitting down with your nan, is joint POA. It sounds like you have a great relationship with her and you don't want to jeopardise that. Perhaps joint POA would demonstrate that you aren't after her money or possessions.

She's very religious. Which is what baffles me about her moral compass.

This isn't baffling. Morality and religion are absolutely not fine bedfellows. In fact, I'd say there's a strong, positive correlation between lack of morality and strength of religious beliefs.

[SanitysSake]

she's a Christian and believe it or not she can justify being greedy and bullying my nan by pretending it's in her best interests but she would never knowingly do anything illegal. She's very religious. Which is what baffles me about her moral compass.

For the love of sweet Jesus. I have family members that are alleged 'Christians' and their behaviour and moral compasses are always just tottering in the bloody southerly direction. Makes me so so mad.

Tell your Mum she's a vulture and under no circumstances, will you allow this to happen to your nan. If she doesn't like it and kicks off, just reply with:

'Then forgive me'

Protect your nan at all costs. She desperately needs you x

[Kiroro]

My mum isn't a bad person, she just has some questionable morals!!

I'm not sure that many people could describe pressuring a vulnerable person into parting with serious amounts of cash for you personal gain, to their detriment - are the actions of a good person.

[nicetoseeyoutoseeyounice]

The thing is, I'm getting married in 2 months time and they are both attending. I don't want a huge fallout before the wedding but I can't bare the thought of my nan being so stressed out by this.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

You're going to have to though aren't you? Much as I understand that it's your big and very important day, this is your nans life. Or else busy your mum with wedding prep so she doesn't have time, tell your nan to stall and sort it out afterwards. The only issue I'd have is if your mum intervened when you were on honeymoon or otherwise occupied. If she really wants to push it, houses can be sold very quickly at auctions.

[nicetoseeyoutoseeyounice]

I know. My mum has asked if I fancy a day out soon so will bring it up with her face to face and try not to word it like I'm attacking her. My nans wellbeing in the most important thing on my mind right now. She lives around 2.5 hours drive from me so I can't just pop in and see how she's doing. And she doesn't like to bother people with her problems so even though she knows I'm just the other end of the phone, I need to be the one to keep checking in with her to make sure she's ok.

[CaveMum]

We've just set up a Lasting Power of Attorney for my MIL. She's perfectly "with it" at the moment but we all agreed that it is better to have it set up now in case we need it than to wait until something happens and be on the back foot.

It's very easy to do, you can fill it in online, submit an electronic copy, pay the fees (£120) and then get it signed and sent off. You and your brother could act as attorneys, you just then need a "certificate provider" (someone to sign to say that your Nan fully understands what she is signing) and a witness to all the signatures.

It takes about 8 weeks to come into force providing there are no problems.

It doesn't mean you have control of her money/affairs as such, what it means is you are able to step in and assist her in managing things, so you can talk to her bank on her behalf etc. It doesn't mean you can change her Will or take cash out of her accounts whenever you feel like it.

[Softkitty2]

Absolutely shocking behaviour.. Last years of your nan and your mum will make it miserable for her.

I would personally tip social services and say this is happening. She needs a LPA.