AIBU to say the new booster seat law totally confuses me?

[CharlieDimmocksbosoms]

Just that really. I know from April the law changes on what age/weight/height child can use a booster seat but can someone clearly explain it for me please?

I wonder if they are having trouble pushing it through because R44.04 is EU wide and doesn't actually allow for height restrictions.

They would be better off concentrating on i-size IMO or just adding a regulation which covers usage rather than classification of seats sold.

MummyTheGregor Those mifold look fab but they appear to be American and probably aren't tested to European standards.

I'm reading this as the biggest concern for booster cushions is the seat belt position so I'm accepting that I'm comfortable with my spare seat being the trunki backpack as this has the shoulder seat belt adjuster and arms to hold the DC on the seat. It's not our everyday seat, it's for holidays and when we find ourselves transporting an extra one.

I do like that with the mifold the DC would be at seat height so not using the edge of seat as a foot rest. Much better for when you're switching between adults and children like I do.

it's not only the seat belt position.
it's also the side impact.
look at the crash test video above.

Not sure how they ever going to police it. Its in effect just advice. I think JOhn Lewis have stopped selling booster seats

I'm still giggling from the first page:

However, in practice for safety all children under 150cm should be in a highback booster, irrespective of when you bought their seat

Because that means that I should really be sitting in one myself

front seats/driver seats are generally better adjustable and molded and therefore much safer than back row seat.
and as you know at 150cm you are an unusually short adult in europe.

Oh, yes, I know it's different, and a serious subject, it just tickled me.

My DD has just turned 7 and over 130cm. I feel slightly uncomfortable about not using her seat in the near future especially for motorway journeys so as long as she isn't too tall think we'll keep her in it.
There's a boy in her class who is definitely under 120cm; he sits in the front seat without a booster which makes me feel uncomfortable. I mean you can only see the top of his head!

Could anyone advise what seat my nearly three year old should be in? He's in a group 1 seat (with harness) at the moment but weighs 17kg and is tall, about 100cm.

He's clearly nearly at the maximum weight for his seat. Should we get him a high back booster with a harness, or does he go straight into a high back booster with a seatbelt? I expect the former is safer? But he might not be using that seat long before outgrowing it and needing a 'normal' seat belt high back booster.

Marzipan - rear facing is far safer, you can get extended rear facing seats that go up to 25kg. That's the safest option.

Thanks little - he and his older sister (4.5) were rearfacing until very recently. It was time to turn DD around and we decided to turn both around at the same time, as DS suffers from travel sickness. So I guess we are now looking for the safest possible forward facing seat for him.

I find it unlikely that backless boosters won't be produced - only very narrow shouldered children over 135 or 140cm fit into reasonably priced backless boosters (granted you can buy very expensive enormous arm chair sized ones for which you also need an enormous car or to only have one child and push the front passenger seat right the way forward to fit the enormous booster behind it... but back on planet earth vanishingly few people do).

We are in mainland Europe and all kids up to 150cm (and under 12 years old) need to use boosters - and yes 11 year olds do use them without protest as it is just their normal... My older 2 would not have needed a booster under UK law for years but still use backless boosters (both between 145 and 148 cm) and only one or two of their friends still fit into a HBB (I know because I have one in my car for my youngest child). It isn't really about weight - it's about shoulder width by the time they are in the last 10cm of needing a car seat up til 150cm, and not that many children have such narrow shoulders.

Marzipan have you considered an 'impact shield'? It's a high back booster with a shield that you put in front, am not sure what the weight limits are for using the shield but when they get past the shield you move them onto normal seatbelt. It is meant to be cause less injury in a crash than a 5 point harness.
Look up 'reacro monza nova with impact shield'
The Which site is really good if you join, it gives in depth reviews and safety ratings for different seats.

That's the seat with impact shield.

Oh that looks good little, I'll definitely look into that.

If he's tall an impact shield isn't a good choice. And in any case they are also only rated up to 18kg.

I would keep him in the current seat unless he's getting too tall for the harness. You'd be surprised at how long it takes them to gain 1kg by the time they are 3+. If you still want to keep him harnessed after this, there is no point going for a highback booster with harness, as these harnesses are the same size as the ones in a group 1 seat and only approved to 18kg too.

So you can either go for a highback booster with adult seatbelt, which is perfectly safe as long as it fits him correctly. This means lap belt flat over thighs (NOT soft part of stomach) and shoulder belt across collar bone. Or you'd need to look at seats which harness through group 2. Most of these are ERF seats but you can use them forward facing.

In the future it will be possible to buy i-size seats which harness longer but currently most i-size seats are stuck with the isofix restriction of harnessing to 18kg (sometimes 18.5) because that is the weight isofix supports.

FWIW you can find a lot of info about longer harnessing being better, but in fact a well fitted booster with a child who is mature enough not to undo or wriggle out of it is perfectly adequate and in some ways safer than a rigid harness.

Adult bone structure is different to pre-pubertal bone structure. That's why there's also an upper limit of 12 years.

The concord reverso plus is i-size with a higher weight rating (23kg) than most I-size seats if anyone is looking for one that goes beyond 18kg.

5more - I am 164cm, like I said I can easily fit in my sons cybex solution car seat width wise. So I would fine it hard to believe those under 150cm would be too wide. In which case there are plenty of seats wide enough that fit in a normal car. We have two cybex seats in our car and can fit an adult in the middle fine

We used high back booster as long as possible. I had side impact, DH just a backed booster so mine was the preferred one to use. Much comfier on longer journeys and/or for sleeping!

But when DS grew a bit, the top of the back of the booster was still too low or wedged on my car roof! So the last few months before we were 100% convinced he was well over 135cm and comfortable and safe with no seat were on a booster cushion. (Mine was a 2 part thingy).

It's not just about having a seat, or even having a legal seat - you also have to LOOK at the child and your car and see if it will work...

So much easier to arrange lifts etc now all the little people are that bit bigger.

Thanks Bertie. That's good to know about harnesses.His big sister is lighter (!) but taller and the seatbelt seat seems to be working well for her - she's over the 15kg minimum and the seatbelt when inserted correctly seems to fit her nicely. I do like her seat a lot so could get a second one. We will just have to monitor his weight gain closely to make sure we move him up in time..

You can believe what you like Art - several people on the thread are saying the same as me; only narrow shouldered/ very slightly built children fit in standard high backed boosters once they get close to 150cm tall. The fact you fit is neither here nor there as we can't see you!

Wasn't sure about the weight limit on the impact shield.
That's useful to know about the seatbelt bertie but yes, definitely worth bearing in mind that with a seatbelt, they have to be sensible enough to sit still in it. If they are moving/wriggling about/pulling belt off their shoulders then a harness is safer.

Bertie, would you mind explaining the isofix and 18kg limit? What about the isofix HHB that obviously go past 18kg?

They use the seatbelt to secure the child after 18kg. The isofix in those cases is just to secure the seat when it's empty, and to stop it from moving around when the child gets in and out of it.

It's isofix + harness which is limited to around 18kg (it's a bit higher to account for the weight of the seat itself). It's to do with what the isofix fittings themselves are actually rated to hold in a collision. A seatbelt of course is designed to hold an entire adult's weight. I don't know if isofix with top tether is rated higher, it seems like it could be, but I'm not an engineer so I don't know. Certainly all seats on the market which harness higher than 18kg (the next stage is 25kg) use the seatbelt to secure the seat in the car.

FWIW, intermittent wriggling in a seat is not a big problem with a seatbelt, because a child who leans out of a seatbelt then sits back in their seat will have the seatbelt adjust itself (as long as the HBB is designed well and the seatbelt isn't trapped, anyway). That's better than a harnessed seat with a child who can take their arms out because they tend not to want to put them back in, meaning you have to stop the car and do it for them, and if you can't stop straight away they are in an unsafe position for longer. Of course, it's more dangerous for the time they are leaning out of the seat, and there have been cases of children who have died or been injured because they were leaning out of a seat when the car crashed, but sometimes it's about judging the risk against other possible risks.

One more plus for high backed boosters which many parents don't think about - they can be used as a makeshift body board/stretcher to carry a child out of a catastrophic crash without moving their neck, meaning they can be taken to a safer place to be examined for injury. You can't do this with a harnessed seat - too heavy - and you certainly couldn't do it with a low booster.

Marzipan if you still have his red book, look in there to gain an idea of when he might reach 18kg based on the centile lines he's on or between. From 3 your normal bathroom scales are okay to check weight too, DS certainly always enjoyed standing on them!