AIBU to say the new booster seat law totally confuses me?

[CharlieDimmocksbosoms]

Just that really. I know from April the law changes on what age/weight/height child can use a booster seat but can someone clearly explain it for me please?

[BertieBotts]

The report does talk about deaths in quite a frank way, just as a warning.

[BertieBotts]

I found an interesting report about car seat performance from 1980. It's from North America so they had different types of seat there at the time but the same as in Europe WRT the fact that most people didn't use them and there were barely any safety standards about them.

It really highlights how important car seats are. Even old ones, even less safe ones, even improperly used ones. Splitting hairs is less important than the basic situation of using one to begin with. :)

deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/500/44653.0001.001.pdf

[littledinaco]

Like Bertie says, I admit it was a very dramatic way of putting it and yes you are correct, the poor little girl wasn't actually quite cut in two.

One quote from a doctor in relation to the girl's injuries:
“Where you could see the stripe of the seat belt in an enormous bruise across her abdomen, as well as the fact that the edge, the far edge of the belt, had actually cut through her abdominal wall and she had protruding intestines from that. She was just about cut in two. Much of which, quite frankly, couldn't be repaired. The injury was too severe.”

I do understand that it is a media article and will be made to sound 'dramatic'.
My point was more to highlight how severe the consequences can be from not using a car seat.
Hopefully, it may make someone think twice about putting their children in without a car seat.

[peggyundercrackers]

littledinaco yes I get the person had a lot of serious injuries but they still weren't cut in two...

[BertieBotts]

Saying that children can be cut in half is a very dramatic way of putting it, but lap belt only restraint, which is what happens when the shoulder belt is too high to fit a child properly, can cause massive internal injuries and be a serious problem.

Interestingly I remember riding on a booster seat intermittently when I was possibly about 8 years old which would have been in the 90s. I don't remember high backed boosters ever being a thing until the law changed in 2003. We had car seats for babies and toddlers and then just nothing or a booster, but no back and sides. We had a little gadget thing which was supposed to make the seatbelt fit more safely too by pulling it closer together, but in reality probably just increased the chance of submarining under it

[BertieBotts]

The weight won't be an issue. It's just a way to classify the seats. Bear in mind that the original R44 legislation which the categories still come under was written in something like 1982. At that time not everyone used car seats for babies, and if they did they usually stopped as soon as the child could be trusted not to climb around the car and distract the driver. It wouldn't have occurred to anyone that a 40kg child would still be using a booster!

All a booster does is position the seatbelt, the belt itself does the restraining in a crash. The only problem with weight would be if he was so heavy he was bending the plastic but I think you'd have to be talking well over adult weight for that to happen. It's a problem to use harnessed seats over their weight categories because the harness itself can theoretically fail.

Injuries caused by using just the seatbelt too early, or caused by children wriggling forwards in their booster seat (often because they find it uncomfortable that their knees don't reach the edge of the seat) are collectively called "seatbelt syndrome" and make for sobering reading. It's important to make sure your DC's boosters fit properly and that they sit comfortably in them so they're not tempted to wriggle down.

[MrsCharlesBrandon]

Thank you 5, that's reassuring!

[5moreminutes]

www.chefkoch.de/forum/2,45,519997/zu-schwer-fuer-den-Kindersitz.html MrsCharles we are in Germany and the same discussion occurs from time to time. Basically the backless boosters are only tested to 36kg but everyone uses them for heavier kids who are not quite 150cm and under 12. What the police care about is how the seatbelt sits on the child - they won't be weighing him under any circumstances!

There are some seats that are actually tested up to higher weights for heavier children but they are really made for children with special needs who need a seat for reasons other than just height for the most part and tend to be enormous and very expensive.

One of mine is 148cm and almost 40 kg and one about 145cm and about 37kg and both are using a booster cushion labelled for 15-36 kg in Germany.

[littledinaco]

Peggy-the doctor in that link says 'the force cause the belt to shred the muscle and fat underneath. It even sliced through on her left side, causing inches of her intestine to spill outside her belly' and that the seatbelt 'acts like a knife'.
It's not baloney although I love that word

[peggyundercrackers]

the lap belt can literally cut them in two

what absolute baloney - no child has ever been cut in two...

[MrsCharlesBrandon]

I completely understand the new guidelines, but unsure how to apply them in my DS's case.

He's 7, 142cm tall, and almost 40 kg. Given that car seats (inc boosters) have an upper limit of 36kg, where does that leave me?

Currently he's in the back on a regular booster, but he's clearly over the weight limits! We go to Europe every summer and I can't find any information about seats that hold heavier children.

[littledinaco]

Bluebelle that is really dangerous. Not having a high back booster is dangerous enough but no car seat at all - if they were in a crash, the lap belt can literally cut them in two as it's not in the right position (so it's on their stomach instead of their hips). Shoulder belt is not in right position either.
Maybe show you mum some of the crash test videos and this www.google.co.uk/amp/www.today.com/amp/health/mom-warns-about-car-seat-safety-after-daughter-nearly-sliced-t104541?client=safari

I think a lot of people just don't realise how dangerous it is.

[BertieBotts]

Yes does look a bit baffling I must admit! But never mind, if they aren't worried that's good at least :)

[amammabear]

Bertie we do have the charts, but then they do some additional calculations. It's beyond me!

[herethereandeverywhere]

Aw cute, my mum should permanently be on a booster seat she'll hate love me when I tell her that!

Basically:
By law:

• If you already have booster seats without a back, they are fine to use for whatever child (once out of 5 point harness seats).
  

• If you are buying a new one then the new age/weight guideline for high backed boosters should be followed from April
  

If you want to be more safe than the minimum required by law, you are recommended:

• to follow the new age/weight guideline for high backed boosters now; and
  
• keep kids on a booster until they are 150cm

[RedBugMug]

yep illegal.
and bloody dangerous.

infant car seat should not be used for long stretches but are very safe in case a car should crash

[Bluebellevergreen]

MIL drives her grankids (not mine) without car seats. They are now 5 and 7. I take it this is not legal??!!
We got a car seat for the baby we are expecting and she went on and on about car seats being bad for newborns when we said we are just driving 25 minutes hospital- home.

I guess she wont be driving my child then 😒

[BertieBotts]

Sorry, here's the one for 5+ www.who.int/growthref/en/

[BertieBotts]

It will be these charts they are using.

www.who.int/childgrowth/standards/en/

[amammabear]

Basicbrown yes, to be classed as underweight as a child, they do it against the height rather than age. So although he floats just above the 25th centile for height and between -0.4 and 0.4 for weight, when the two are correlated (don't ask me how they do it!) because his height is lower than average even though it's not as low as the weight, it makes the weight chart in a slightly better position. The calculations they use are beyond me though.

[PetalMettle]

Mil is under 150, pondering buying a hbb for her

[Basicbrown]

Are you sure? According to the NHS BMI calculator that is zero percentile as is 20 and 20.5. To be 1st percentile he would need to be 21. 22kg is 7th percentile, so would still be not that much over the underweight. That looks very underweight to me. Unless your scales aren't quite right at lower levels? Mine always underweigh my daughter. She tends to be about 15th percentile for BMI so if she went down a kilo would be classed as underweight just about.

[amammabear]

Basicbrown he's essentially ok, he's only just classed as underweight- it just shows how wide the range of "normal" is though.

[Basicbrown]

I'm sorry Ammabear that must be very worrying

[llangennith]

Don't get a Mifold! I was one of the original funders and it seemed a brilliant seat Just the thing for DGS (then 8yo) whose back is too long for any high back booster.
When it finally arrived last summer we discovered it's far too fiddly to do up and even harder to get the child out. Even with our combined effort it took well over a minute. It says it confirms to UK and EU standards, but not with regard to getting out quickly as in an emergency.
They must've had a lot of complaints like mine because they rushed out a new video showing easy the procedure was showing a skinny girl buckling up and unbuckling. However, all the 'bits' of the seat and straps were in the optimum place whereas irl that doesn't happen.
If anyone want to try it PM me