To not agree with this amount of homework or awards for it?

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds is 7 and a younger year 3. They've just been given their first big project. We have six weeks to do it and there are 15 tasks all of which take at least an hour and some - like the one we did last week - take several hours and a considerable amount of resources. This is on top of spellings, reading, numeracy homework.
So that's my first moan. Too much I think. Plus without significant parental support they aren't going to be able to do it because of the range of the tasks involved.

However my biggest issue is that on top of this school have decided to give prizes to the 'best' three projects - considering creativity, effort and presentation. Now aside from the fact ds is dyspraxic and his presentation is not good (we will use the computer for some of it admittedly) I just feel that a) it ramps up the pressure and b) what about the other 27 kids who've worked hard but don't get a prize? Why can't they have an end of topic celebration for everyone where they look at each other's projects and have some golden time or something? I just think this is too much. Ds is already crying and saying his won't be good enough to get a prize. He's very competitive and a perfectionist (ASD strongly suspected) and he's already decided his project won't be good enough. I've talked to him about effort etc but he said it doesn't matter how much effort he puts in, he won't get a prize and he's more than likely right.
Why bring prizes into it at all?

This is a good state school by the way. Not private or anything.

Aibu?

My rules are: prep for weekly spelling test must be done. Reading and maths must be done. Making models... totally optional.

I'd arrange a meeting with the teacher and ask what benefits they think the homework will have. How are they linked to the NC? And do they really think that dc will do them on their own? If not, they shouldn't be giving hw that adults have to help with.

So, the teachers should justify every piece of homework they set and then argue against cited works?

Rather than waste your and their time, don't bother with the meeting. You clearly know best.

Cherry

it is 15 for the Op's son who, she has said, takes 3 times as longer to complete a task (to the same standard). That is 5 hours of work over 6 weeks for the majority of the class. I would find that perfectly acceptable. I would guess that Crotchet's idea of a leaflet is closer to the mark that what many posters here are suggesting.

You speak sense as to what the OP should be instilling in her son too Crotchet. No 'if you can;t win, do the minimum' nonsense but that the point is to learn and that internal satisfaction is equally (if not more) important.

Are you a music teacher?

MY DS 9 would be put off by this.He has dysgraphia so wouldn't win. He already is sat away from his friends as he compares himself none favourably to them. ( yes he shouldn't is told not to but does)

I also think given a project now he would be completely overwhelmed and do nothing.

Considering the evidence is that homework with the exception of reading in primary does nothing then what a waste of time.

GahBuggerit

Cross-post.

But surely he can work out 4x5. Then multiply this by 10. Then 3x5. Add the two...

More steps but much easier.

Starlight

The debate rages on between educated professionals. As of yet, it is inconclusive.

Interesting tat the OP was at pains to state that her son doesn't attend a fee paying school when mentioning the amount of prep set. Fee paying schools usually produce better results. There are many factors at play but the increased prep is one of them.

You son may easily win for effort.

Thats the problem Wet, the extra steps, that the teachers arent teaching so he gets distressed and confused when I show him something that his teacher isn't showing (and he is a little behind in Maths I will admit). I showed him the far easier way, not sure what the name is for it but its the one where you do (hope its showing ok):

43
x 5

(3 x 5, 4 x 5 etc etc)

and he was thrilled with this way, but because its not the way the teacher has shown him he wont use it, and the teacher says hes not allowed.

If I knew and taught your son, I would consider whether to encourage him throughout the course of the work and then reward him or encourage him, tell him he was second and how, by listening to constructive feedback he was sure to win next time and, of course, he would.

Surely, it would be completely unethical to promise a child that they would win next time for a project that hasn't even been set yet. How is that fair on all the other children in the class?

Ah primary homework! My own personal bugbear these days!

My view is that any homework should be at the child's level so that they can complete it independently. Yes the parents might need to read the instructions, make sure there are pencils, a space at the table to work at etc, but the actual work should be at the child's level.

Except my children bring home things they can't read, claim to have never done at school, totally don't understand etc. So I help them with it and always write a comment saying they needed a lot of help, but the work level never changes. I think teachers, who are all reasonably intelligent and probably never struggled at primary school, often don't realise that while a 'top of the class' child might be able to answer 20 questions in full sentences in about 10 minutes flat it will take my 8 year old with minor SEN (who always has a TA with his group for literacy) about 2 hours.

But, back to the point. You might be surprised by who they give prizes to. Back when I was a teenager and my mum was a class teacher the juniors always had a termly project for each class. Each child had to do a 'project' about whatever the topic was. So Vikings or Victorians or whatever. No tasks, they just did what they wanted. So they might focus on the Royal family at the time, a page about food, about entertainment, whatever. They could draw pictures or print things off. Stick in photos of trips their parents took them to etc. Whatever they and their parents wanted to do.

I liked it when my mum brought these home because I would help her choose who to give 'prizes' (mainly House Points) to. We always chose projects that were clearly done by the children (obviously with a bit of help with organisation and structure etc) and not by the parents. This was when not everyone had computers but when projects came in typed with perfect grammar and spelling and vocabulary that was clearly by an adult we didn't give those ones prizes. If we did give them to typed ones it was only if it was clear a child had typed them. Ie. The sentences were ones a child would think of.

Generally though we liked the handwritten ones where you could see the effort the child had put in. And my mum knew her kids well. She knew that a project with 3 sentences per page in less than perfect handwriting was actually a really good effort for a certain child. She appreciated the hand drawn pictures and the carefully underlined titles. She always made sure she awarded prizes depending on effort, and so if there were 3 prizes they would generally go to one 'top of the class' child who had written reams and reams and really got into it, one to an 'average' child who had put in quite a bit of work and one to a 'bottom of the class' child whose few sentences and drawings had been an absolutely massive effort for them. Everybody worked hard for my mum's projects because they knew they always had a chance to 'win' no matter their ability.

No wet it's an hour a task at least for everyone. It will be longer for us for some of them.
So all children will have at least 15 hours over the six weeks.

Fee paying schools usually produce better results. There are many factors at play but the increased prep is one of them.

At one of the at least South Easts top prep schools which is near us they don't give any homework till year 7. There results are phenomenal

It's ludicrous. I say this as a fan of homework in primary schools and of private education. There is zero need for this level of work.

Are you sure you have to do all of them?? We get a list of home learning projects home - variety o things such as cooking, power point presentations, model making etc all on the topic but they have to do at least 1, ideally 2 or 3 over the half term.

Surely, it would be completely unethical to promise a child that they would win next time for a project that hasn't even been set yet.

You tell them that if only they x,y,z then "I'm sure you'll win".... and they do.
I don't see this remotely a a case of ethics simply making the most of the reward available.

Are you talking about Cheltenham, Olivers? I assume not as they head decided against it last year. It is a wonderful school, I know it well professionally.

As I said, it's my professional opinion that thought through homework is beneficial and necessary.

@Skating - I don't think 15 hours is unreasonable over 6 weeks. I also think you view this as a maximum including extension work for the most able.

I think telling the teacher how your son feels is important.

I think you should give him the minimum possible input and see that some parental input has enormous benefit. We can tell which parents do engage with their children's education in an appropriate way.

15 hours over 6 weeks plus spelling homework, reading and numeracy for a 7 year old??? Not unreasonable???

I hate the attitude of not rewarding children positively.........why shouldn't the best three win a prize? since when has a little competition been a bad thing??

I fear we're going to end up years down the line with older teenagers/young adults bawling their eyes out when someone tells them they're not good enough at an interview for the job!! - seriously! - what's so wrong with a child being told someone out there is better at them on this occasion?

There's also the assumption that the teacher/school wont take into account different abilities - how to you know they wont look at it objectively and take into account how a child with difficulties has performed and reward them accordingly as one of the three?

As for the amount - in general homework has increased significantly - but then its also far harder to get good employment these days too.

I work full time with 3 dcs and so I do appreciate it can be exhausting with a pile of homework to guide/help them through, but that's my job isn't it, to support them and give them the best opportunities?

It is all tasks plus 'bonus points' for adding your own additional tasks. Whatever it means by bonus points...

You tell them that if only they x,y,z then "I'm sure you'll win".... and they do.

But you can only tell that to one child! - what about the other 29? And that was on the basis of your suggestion upthread of the mother coming in with some of the work completed and you sharing suggestions (with the mother). What about the other children whose mothers don't come in mid-project?

It's rubbish anyway. Within a class there are the brightest DC, those who have a flair for art and presentation and those with pushy parents who will do most of the work. The best work will come from DC with some combination of those factors. If there are 3 prizes the odds are there'll be two from that group and one most improved/best effort.

I feel for you, having been in a similar situation. The thing about competition is it works if you stand a chance. If you have a realistic chance of getting the prize you put in the work and if you don't get it, it's a lesson in trying again. If you know that this is not a prize you will get how ever hard you try it's the most demotivating thing ever.

The only thing that matters is trying to do the best they are capable of. I don't know if it would work for your DS OP, but if I were dealing with mine I'd decide on a number of tasks that seemed reasonable to me, including any specific ones that I thought would cover skills he needs to work on, and make that a 'target' with a prize for him if he completes them. Something he really wants.

Challenging DC is fine but when you set the bar so high it makes them not want to even try anymore what's the point?

I would find out what happens if he doesn't do it. And then whether ds cares about that.

Ds in Y3 has figured out that as long as he behaves impeccably at school, there is no penalty if he doesn't do homework (as he would need an extra demerit before losing his 'perfect' record). Teacher sets homework because she has to, ds thinks about it and 90% of the time doesn't do it, and we're all happy. Sometimes there's a prize for the best xyz and he's not able to be considered, or ds is a bit wistful when his friends show masterpeices of gluey toilet rolls to each other, but that's the consequence. He learns.

Hahaha to those who actually ever think homework at primary level cab genuinely be completed without parental input is deluded. Especially as none of it is aimed sat the individual childs capabilities.

Prizes for the best is just teaching children to do things for the prize and not for the learning, it is also relative who says what is 'better' a child who has can high IQ that creates an involved and intricate piece of work or the child who struggles to write creating four lines of readable handwriting.

My advice is that you do it for him. It will cut down on his ridiculous amount of homework and he stands a chance of winning.
Any time dd has brought anything like this home she has worked hard on it and produced something really good (for her age) and every time the prize goes to something that a child has clearly had no input in whatsoever. If dd gave the slightest of shits abut getting a prize I'd happily do it for her. Luckily we just have a good old laugh between ourselves about the fact the 'winner' was clearly in their 30's.

Bumsex, innit, one of the kids at my DS school won a prize for the best bonnet for easter in Nursery, it was fab and it bleeding well should have been considering the Mum worked at a designers. Meanwhile I evil laughed while the teacher was forced to handle 20 crying 4 year olds after the assembly who were distraught that their creations were, in comparison to this fantastic masterpiece, dog shit. A fine example of an own goal if I've ever seen one!!!

DS had a new styled homework brought in last term, we and I mean 'we' worked hard on it, each item on a grid had a numerical points value and you got a certificate depending on how many points you got. My DS struggles with handwriting and so as each item had to have can piece of writing with it, it was a struggle for him, to complete and get gold he had to do at least 1hr of writing every night. Most children in his class could have completed the writing element in one go. Every night he sat without complaint and did his little bit. He was so excited when certificate day came, when he came out he was long face d, he'd been given bronze... Why ? Because he had not done enough writing!!! It had not stipulated how much but the had done four lines for each.
Guess what happened when we got this terms book!
It went in the bin.
I won't have him being expected to produce something that even WITH my help is above him.