To feel sad that Dc's can't be in the same room unsupervised for fear of really hurting one another

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 Dc's eldest is a boy of 9 and a girl if 7. They have lovely moments where they can play nicely together but it is short lived and I can't seem to leave them unsupervised as arguments seem to start very suddenly and they are both very keen to hurt one another when they fall out. I have a younger brother and can honestly say that I never remember fighting so this is making me so sad. I have recently stopped all ipad and wi use as a form of punishment but it seems to have no effect. Stupidly left them tonight in same room playing board with neighbours child. Suddenly I realised that there was a commotion and ds was stood over his sister and ramming his fist into her chest. I grabbed him off and sent him to his room but I just feel so sad why they would want to behave like this. They are never aggressive to other children. I have told them that if behaviour improves they can have limited ipad use as a reward but would love to know any other suggestions please.

My brother and I were awful. 2.5 years apart. I think I was probably insanely jealous of him and he was incredibly annoying. We used to drive our mum mad, I remember her crying once. We never saw our parents fighting or being aggressive.

My eldest 2 are 2 years apart and they are like this too. Eldest is jealous of middle. Middle is sneaky and knows which buttons to push. Baby gets away with it all because they both adore him. They have never seen dh and I fighting or being aggressive.

They don't ever fight with other children, just with each other. It is very normal but I once went to a positive parenting evening and the lady running it said that siblings fighting is not normal and there shouldn't be any reason why they would fight. I have to fight the thought of what she said all the time as I know she is wrong. Ask anyone and most people will say their children do fight.

My brother and I (18 months apart) fought a lot and sometimes it got physical, although we got on well at other times. We were definitely not abused or witnessed domestic violence. I was the one who used to wind him up until he lashed out. We get on pretty well now (although I wouldn't describe us as close), but we are still very different personalities.

My two went through a phase of being absolute bollocks to one another last year. To the point where I'd leave a room and physically brace myself for the screams to begin.

It was possibly the most pretentious shit I'd ever heard of but I started a kindness jar (thank you Pinterest); every time I saw or heard something kind pass between them they'd get a marble in their jar, even if it was just managing not to stab one another at mealtimes. Every evening after school and clubs we'd count the marbles and if they had 15 marbles they'd get 15 minutes on the xbox (which I'd forbidden them from touching because of the excessive dickery going on). It worked. They were kinder and kinder as each day went by. And now, a year later whilst they're not the Von Trapps and DS2 had to be reprimanded on new years eve for giving DS1 the bird, they're much kinder and less prone to twatting one another in the back of the car. Noticing the kind/positive behaviour sounds ridiculous but worked for mine far better than tellings-off ever did.

My DCs fought sometimes, but it was the odd slap or pinch, not pinning one another down and punching them hard. I would set house rules and put them up somewhere, which include not hurting other family members, and start a reward chart for good behaviour, and some serious consequences for violence (they don't seem to mind what is happening currently enough for it to put them off?). Reward system can be quite good for older kids if u let them help choose the rewards, you can even offer optional extra chores for extra rewards (I think because it is their choice, you'd be surprised how keen they can be!).
They are big enough to understand rules, and consequences, and personally, I'd make the consequences more severe til they took them seriously (while actively encouraging good behaviour too).

I think you need to tackle it - in another couple of years he may be a lot bigger than her, and you won't want to see a big, pubescent DS sitting on a little girl punching her hard :-/.

Mine, 10 & 8, are like this. It's exhausting constantly refereeing, keeping them both safe and our house in one piece.

My brother (2yo) beat the crap out of me. My mother didn't seem to notice.

It didn't end well for me.

I don't think not being able to leave them in the same room together is remotely normal.

There were never any consequences for my brother's behaviour. How do you respond to your DC's repeated violence?

I think it's pretty normal for siblings to argue and my DDs certainly do. What I find difficult is trying to get to the bottom of things and working out who is at fault. When you have two kids whinging and blaming and each claiming to be the victim, how do you know without a full on investigation. I sometimes punish both of them because I can't work it out. However I would draw a firm line at anything physical.

My sister and I were very much like this. There is just over 3 years between us. I think she resented my arrival and found me annoying.
I don't remember trying to anno her on purpose until I was older and well aware she was not going to change her opinion of me. As adults we're not close and my mum just can't work out why.
We had to share a room growing up, I think if we'd each had our own space we'd have been a lot better.
My children are 6 and nearly 3. My eldest has never been resentful of my youngest and generally seems to like him! They have their moments, I guess I'll just see how it goes as they get older.

My brother (4 years older) and I used to tear strips off one another. It would start with something small, like him changing the channel when I was watching a show or pinching my leg under the table, but would build and build into physical fights. Unfortunately IMO having an older brother led to this, as he was physically stronger, therefore able to pick on me without being hit as hard back!
We ended up ignoring each other whilst living in the same house, from when I was about 13 to 18, then I went to university and now we get on fine.
The resentment from how we fought, and the sibling competition is still there though. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do but punish severely for any physical fights, and hope they grow out of it soon.

Me and my brother were the same (2 years apart) - we just hated each other and would fight, argue and be really nasty and cruel to each other. It got less physical as we got older and more quiet hatred and ignoring one another. As adults we aren't close.

When people go round saying it's cruel to have only children, this is the side of things people don't talk about. Not all siblings like each other and are friends. Sometimes life is easier and quieter with just 1. My childhood is filled with a lot of memories of arguing, shouting and tearing strips off each other and not much else. Sad really.

My older sister used to do this to me and I'd always end up getting the blame. She'd start the fight quite violently and then claim I had grabbed her. She's 18 months older than me but I have always been bigger in size/stature so my parents (mother especially) always believed her.

Are you sure it's equal and not one starting it but the other one finishing it?

We're in our early 30's now and she still tries the same things albeit verbally and not physically. Then wonders why I have no desire to ever have any kind of relationship with her after almost 20 years of perpetual goading, because she was jealous and had a ridiculous 'middle child' complex that my mother almost encouraged as she never got to the bottom of it.

One or the other or both are jealous of something or unhappy which will be triggering the 'battle mode' response.

Alternatively they just might not like each other. Some siblings don't.

I signed my kids up for martial arts classes. Very very quickly the random physical fighting stopped.
It felt a bit of a risk at the time! but there there is a lot about discipline and respect in martial arts, and not coming from the usual nagging "don't do that" parent voice. It has benefited both of them so much over the years too.

My elder sibling was abusive. I cant say that it was 'fighting' it was more like me getting my head kicked in on a daily basis by a much larger person and it started before I was school age.

When I did start school, my elder sibling really came into their own, where they could attack me in front of a mocking audience. My home life and school life were both ruined. Then in senior school, it was physical attacks as well as spreading nasty rumours. I had no friends

My parents seemed to totally misread the situation , when at home they would tell us to 'stop fighting' .

After I had left home as a young adult, the physical attacks stopped, but the verbal nastiness and put downs continued.

I haven't spoken to my sibling in 20 years now and will never do so again.

My point is OP, be sure that this ISNT bullying or abuse. Don't just put it down to kids messing around, as this ruined the first two decades of my life

Oh and just to add, this is why I only ever had one child!

no abuse or domestic violence in my family either. Just because it may be a reaction to abuse doesn't mean it only happens to abused children

2 years between me and my sister, we're NC most of our adult lives.

Just because people share genetics and are close in age doesn't mean they have anything in common or even like each other.

Tell them as they can't be trusted to be left alone together it won't be happening until you can. But obviously you still have stuff to do. So if you need half an hour to put washing away one of them comes to help for the first 15 minutes then they swap. Ditto changing beds or whatever else you need to do. When you think they've learned their lesson you can trust them again but make it clear that if there's any more hitting the trust will be gone and they will go back to being separated and doing what you do. Worked with my 2 who are similar ages. People always comment about how well they get on now!

bumsex' suggestion is a good one

it is true that some siblings do dislike each other and get physical very quickly, but that doesn't mean that you have to accept it, any more than you would have to accept it if they were, say, very light-fingered and found it hard to resist the temptation to help themselves from your purse

unacceptable is still unacceptable, whatever the temptation

you have the right to insist on a certain level of civilised behaviour in your home

the fact that it's normal is neither here nor there: it is probably also normal for adults to want to hit someone who really winds them up, but we no longer accept wife-beating on the grounds of normality

Arguing is normal but violence is not. Try family therapy. They have to learn better ways to manage conflict.
If they've never seen your family arguing and getting over it, they wont have a model to use for arguments.

Is one of them more spoiled than the other by you or your dh? Perceptions of inequality can make violence worse. I also suggest you get a baby cam or similar in any room they're together in - might help you get to the root of the problem. Cousin did that with her kids and found the youngest dd was the one starting all the fights and eldest dd would only hit back after she got seriously hurt.

Just to add - cousin's youngest was later diagnosed on the autism spectrum.

Sorry OP it sounds horrible for all of you.
I'm six years younger than my DB and we were enemies until I was late teen, so he in his mid-20s and long since left home.
He used to sit down on my arms to punch me, called me vicious names about my appearance which really hurt my confidence. he was merciless at taking the piss out of my physical puberty changes especially in front of friends which gave me a wired relationship with food. He would also tell me frightening stories about supernatural things from horror films, serial murderers etc to scare me and it made me very anxious.

I really hated him and spent as much time as I could out of the house with friends. I remember on a few pathetic occasions, trying to get him to be friends which fell very flat. there was nothing he liked about me, which was crushing.

Our DM and DF used to sigh with annoyance and say ' sort it out amongst yourselves' or seperate us for a short while but under punishment terms which was awful. They never looked into why. We also shared a bedroom for years so it was relentless.

My DB left home as soon as he could and moved far away, to my relief. He came back home for a visit once when I was about 18. DB talked about how it was and he said sorry. He told me about how he'd been bullied at school throughout secondary (so since I was 5) which I hadn't known - though I knew he stole from us and truanted. He'd changed his school a few times so I think my parents were aware.

And about how he felt himself not the favourite child; which I knew was true. He told me loads of other difficult stuff about our past which for me completely took the blame away from him from 'just being a horrible person' as I had regarded him. It showed me two hurt, angry children with no adult support.

Our parents were at each other's throats with various other issues going on when we were kids and it was shit for us all so we turned on each other. Not surprisingly neither of us are close with our parents now. I now have a friendship with my DB which I really value, though he still lives a long way away.

OP you sound like a lovely proactive parent. Your DC's issues will be coming from somewhere. They're not young kids who know no better than hitting. I'd suggest you and DH each sit them down separately to talk and really really listen. repeat and swap if you're not sure if you're hearing it all. Also speak to their teachers about the situation. Good luck and hope that things improve soon.

There's 3 years between me and DB and we fought viciously when we were kids. There were several memorable occasions where we concussed each other and our parents used to get so fed up that they used to separate us. That was exactly what we wanted so one afternoon after a particularly nasty fight where chunks of hair were lost (mine) and blood was drawn (his after I bit him) my dad put us into a huge T-shirt where we only had one arm free and made us do chores under his supervision. Any sabotage of the other's effort resulted in more work for us both and after being stuck together for nearly 12 hours (did I mention we were stubborn buggers?) we reached a truce. I must have been about 10 or 11 at the time. We were never great friends while I lived at home but we did rub along and we're very close as adults. The one thing that we both admit is that we were jealous of the other, even if the source was petty and stupid.

I agree with downwiththissortofthing.

Make very sure your kids aren't bullying or abusing each other.

Set a family meeting and ask them to contribute ideas toward making home life safe for everyone. Construct a contract, and you all sign it.
I'm my home:
I am safe
I am loved
I am relaxed
I am supported
No one shouts
No one hits
No one bites
No one sneers

That kind of thing.

I was beaten up regularly by my older sister, and once knocked out. She had MH problems when she was an adult, so you may need to have your children assessed for MH problems.

A friend of mine was raped repeatedly by her older brother, her mother couldn't work out why they didn't get on, and used to lump them together more because she thought this would fix things.

This kind of violence and abuse isn't normal.

They may need separate schools, friends and hobbies. You will need to facilitate that.
Don't lump them together unsupervised or let one spoil something for the other with mocking and sneering.

You need to keep up this work until all bad behaviour is gone.
You need to give each one, one on one time with you.
Exhausting, but be careful there isn't bullying and abuse going on.

What kind of things are they seeing on YouTube?

Do they eat wheat and dairy and sugar. Try a vegetarian whole foods diet for a while.

I think you need outside help actually. Sounds like the dynamics are very broken. This violence isn't normal horse play.

IMO You need to take immediate action. Punching to the chest could result in death. This is serious assault.

"so you may need to have your children assessed for MH problems"

Quite possibly the biggest overreaction I've read on here.

womb That post is so extreme!