To think this wasn't managed well

[Sallywebsterneedsyourvote]

Name changed.

I am part of a group, and we all have children via donor conception. Some opted for this due to health concerns but of course a few are single women or same sex couples.

A good friend's son (age 14) was in an RE lesson where the teacher decided to have a debate on the ethics of this practice. This meant the poor boy had to sit for an hour listening to his classmates state what awful,
selfish people would do this

AIBU to think this was really poorly handled?

[eyebrowsonfleek]

I have teens and they wouldn't know if their friends were conceived by IVF/donor etc. Therefore I think that it is unreasonable to expect sensitivity based on how your son was conceived.

I have to be honest, as a teen I had extremely black and white views that make me sounds like an ignorant arse. My 15 year old is the same. He has very simplistic views of the world but will hopefully grow into a reasonable adult. In many cases, he will voice a strong opinion on topics that he'd never even thought about because he's 15 and thinks that strong opinions make him sound intelligent and cool. I can see him saying something like "Why don't they adopt rather than use donor sperm?" He's 15 and the biological urge to have a kid as part of a long term relationship is something that he obviously won't understand for years.

[MargaretCavendish]

Teenagers are notoriously left wing. That's why labour wanted the voting age lowered.

Again, that doesn't make them notoriously socially liberal, which is a rather different thing. I'm not really convinced that sperm donation is even a left/right issue.

[PberryT]

These types of lessons are hard to manage and opinions are often at 2 extremes.

In fairness to the teacher if he or she didn't know that your son was donor conceived, he or she hasn't deliberately made it awkward or upsetting. How far do you take the theoretical list of things that can't be debated in case you upset someone? There are thousands of children facing thousands of issues. Often thought provoking debate can open the eyes of teenagers to another perspective.

Were you in the lesson? Do you know kW exactly what was said? It sounds more to me like a third hand re hash of a story.

As an aside most of the teens I work with are pretty liberal.

[Scooby20]

Again, that doesn't make them notoriously socially liberal, which is a rather different thing. I'm not really convinced that sperm donation is even a left/right issue.

I agree it's not a left or right issue. But I am saying that teenagers are not known to be conservative.

Personally I think teenagers are quite socially liberal as well. Unfortunately they don't often think about others when voicing their opinion. Probably didn't cross any of their minds that someone in the room may have been conceived that way.

I am really sceptical that every teenager in the room thought it was selfish and no one, including the teacher gave a different point of view.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

so DD writes her piece about everyone should be able to marry however they like etc and the teacher disagrees and while that in itself isn't wrong telling DD gay marriage is wrong without the teacher explaining herself is not a debate

Well that's because in fairness there is absolutely no ethical argument that it's wrong.

It causes no one any distress it doesn't affect anyone except the two who are married. No one woke up to discover they had had a gay marriage etc

There can be no debate when there is no counter argument.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I can see both sides. But I don't follow why 'no sensible teen' would share that information. Some do. We know people with teen children who are perfectly open about it.

But there's a world of difference between introducing a debate as 'this is something that people disagree over' - and referring to widely-known different perspectives from outside the class - and suggesting to a class who may never have thought of an issue as controversial, that it is.

I don't think the teacher should ever make their own personal view known, either.

[HummusForBreakfast]

For that sort of debate to work well, the teacher has to be able to stir the debate in such a way that both sides of the coin are represented.
Otherwise, it will feel like one side is THE way to do/see things and the other is completely wrong.

It is also possible that said teenager only 'heard' argument for one side (it is selfish) but couldn't hear the other.

I think the only way to deal with it is to teach him to defend that pov, incl the simple point of 'If my parents hadn't used IVF, I just woudn't be there'
as well as other reasons that is making IVF a very good option for some parents.

[FoxMulder]

I remember our RE teacher telling us that it was OK to have homosexual feelings but not ok to act on them. We all thought WTF but didn't say anything.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

fox, that sounds like my RE teacher. She told us - a class in Leicestershire, where roughly 1/3 of us were from Asian backgrounds and Hindu or Sikh - that she just didn't really 'understand' religions other than Baptists. Baptists were right.

[MargaretCavendish]

My RE teacher told us that virgin births 'were real and happened every day across the world'. A neat way to scare a room full of teenage girls and miss the message of the Christmas story, all at once! In hindsight I don't think he was quite OK in himself.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

They'll be learning ethics and they'll do a whole range of issues - and the teacher will point out both sides of the argument as well as letting the kids form their own opinions. I remember doing this debate in RE! I think it's rather unusual for a whole class to decide that it's selfish but he's not in an unusual situation - the same debates will happen about same sex marriages, different religions, abortion, euthanasia... there will be people in a lot of the debates who have personal experience. The teacher will offer support if he wants to discuss it, but I'd be utterly shocked if they didn't present an equal argument (as that's the whole point of the debate, to learn to form cohesive arguments).

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

anchor, you're awfully sure what they 'will' do - any reason why?

Obviously, everyone commenting knows how ethics lessons are supposed to work, but without knowing this specific school and teacher, I don't follow why you think you know more than anyone else about whether or not they've been carried out in the right way?

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

LRD I'm not a teacher if that's what you're implying?

I didn't do these lessons that long ago and they are really highly monitored.

Apologies if it came across that I think my opinion was more important or something - I was attempting to be reassuring for the OP. No offence intended.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

No, I was trying to ask if you knew the teacher! Your post sounded as if you recognised the OP's specific situation.

[Leatherboundanddown]

Just a tiny thing, "well tight" where I am is not a good thing, it means "that's really unfair/undesirable."

[Trills]

Teenagers are often po faced about such matters. They will state abortion is 'well tight' and similar.

"well tight" where I am is not a good thing, it means "that's really unfair/undesirable."

These are consistent.

I took the first to mean they were saying abortion was really unfair (on the foetus, presumably).

[Mysterycat23]

Vividly remember a citizenship lesson aged 13 or so where we had a supposed class debate on homosexuality, ended with the loudest teens in class declaring homosexuality was wrong and should be illegal. The teacher tried to challenge this outspoken minority of maybe 3 or 4 students but it descended into an actual shouting match. Most of us were silent waiting for it to end, there was no "debate" to be had. Really horrible. So I totally believe OP that the lesson went as badly as it did. Remember it's a class of 30 ish, if the teacher doesn't structure the lesson to make sure everyone contributes, most of the class will just stay silent, many of whom would disagree with what the loudmouths were saying but don't want to make themselves a target.

[harderandharder2breathe]

A debate would be fine but that would mean clearly presenting both sides of the argument

[Leatherboundanddown]

I was replying to Seryph but maybe I misread what they meant.

[DiegeticMuch]

Many idealistic teenagers would take the simplistic view that couples who can't conceive/carry to term a baby, should adopt one of the many needy children in care. As a pp said, they're quite black and white about cheating at that age too. I remember being about 13 and telling my friends that I'd "immediately dump" my future husband if he were unfaithful, and they nodded assent. We all meant it at the time! I thought that abortion was disgusting too.

[HermioneWeasley]

Do they debate whether religion is a force for good?

Or how you can be "born in the wrong body"?

Or whether sharia courts have a place in modern Britain?

[Sallywebsterneedsyourvote]

Unfortunately, donor conception is still taboo and it's generally better for it to be private - not secret.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Taboo?

Come on, really?

It's unusual and sometimes people are embarrassed, but that's going a bit far, surely?

[Sallywebsterneedsyourvote]

LRD

I honestly wish that I could agree with you.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Out of interest, then, why don't you?

I just don't see it as being taboo.