for thinking that: "because it always been done like that"

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

just doesn't cut it as an argument?
It's funny we live in a society where new things are lapped up...but when it comes to parenting the whole ole...but our parents did or it;s always been done like that...suddenly becomes a valid argument...just because it fits the bill...I mean...wtf...lets just ignore all the new research then right...saying that though, we might aswell scrab it all, because it wold safe money...just lets plod on wihtout knowing any better then, yeah....thumping my head agaisnt a brick wall for sure, sigh....

[robbosmum]

i think you may find that the current nhs climate re: no money may mean no testing so we will all have to live on fresh air and water (wink) ,

sorry in a silly mood

[edam]

Very entertaining post Welliesmum.

There's a big difference between evidence-based guidelines based on proper scientific research - not usually just one study unless it's a particularly compelling one but a careful analysis of all the relevant work - and 'advice' from parenting gurus. Or even from HVs who can't be bothered to check what the research actually says - as in the idiots who claim the weaning advice only applies to developing countries.

Btw, it's rubbish about our own mothers and grandmothers doing it all on instinct (implying that their methods must be somehow pure and unsullied). Parenting gurus with very strange ideas have been around for a long, long time and were misleading previous generations (tempted to add 'too').

In the 1940s (IIRC) there was some God-like authority called Truby King who advocated strict authoritarian regimes. You HAD to leave your baby to cry 'to exercise their lungs' (wft?) and you HAD to leave them outside in their pram for a set period of time every day. People took this so seriously I saw one elderly lady on a documentary explaining that her (nasty bully) of a husband wouldn't let her bring the baby in when it was crying because it was snowing, FFS. Poor baby died of pneumonia.

[shonaspurtle]

pmsl edam - my grandma (who had 4 babies in the 40s) told me at Christmas that I should leave 6wk old ds to cry because it would "exercise his lungs" and also queried whether he was getting enough fresh air...

...you mean this wasn't evidence-based advice? I must ask her about Truby King. Am going to stay with her at the weekend which is going to be a trial .

Wonder if Truby said anything about holding babies giving them "sore bones" since this was another nugget of parenting advice.

[edam]

I suspect TK had been sent away to boarding school at a very young age and was deeply suspicious of any displays of affection between mother and child. Might make them grow up to be friends of Dorothy or otherwise somehow unsuitable to run the Empire...

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

OH wellie, that was sooo funny and also so true...you do have a great way to write a post...I nearly spluttered my tea all over the keyboard, as I was laughing so ahrd!
Edam, exactly, also....at one point men came all involved in the way women had their Baby's/fed their Baby's and they then probably also were of the opinion that they were allowed one about raising the Baby....they were sooo fabulous at telling women, that because they are, obviously, lesser beings, they didn't know nothing, unlike the great gods they believed themselfs to be.....grrr....

[foxabout2pop]

Diva - I was advised to wean DS at 3 months, then the advice suddenly change when I was about to have DD, to six months. I weaned them both at 4.5 months as they were sitting, were interested in and wanting food and were very hungry - i.e. suddenly wanting to be fed all the time. Once given solids they were a lot happier.

I think guidelines are all very well but babies are different weights, sizes etc and you have to do what's right for your own child, rather than be guilt tripped by some book or health visitor because of "current thinking"

Those of us with older kids can see how much the advice has chopped and changed over the years and it gets to the point where you have to treat some of it with a pinch of salt.

[DizzyBint]

fox- have you read this thread at all?

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[welliemum]

Truby King sounds quite benign in that Wikipedia entry, but his babycare theories (in Edams' post) are really shocking.

Interesting to me as I live in NZ and the Plunket system is still going and is IME very good and useful. I see that Truby King doesn't get much of a mention in the Plunket pamphlets - I guess he's a bit of an embarrassment nowadays.

(Oh, 3lovehearts, thanks, glad you were entertained!)

[MrsBadger]

pmsl at 'rhubarb antiklingonase'

you're great, wellie

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

Fox my es is 10 1/2 my younger ones are 4 and 2 1/2...yes, I weaned my es at 4 month as it was generally said to be done...saying that back then we didn't have the Internet and it never occured to me to seek infor in a library or I may have knows that even then WHO did recommend 6 month alreaady....back in the days I took my Hv's and Gp's advice without asking any questions really.
A lot of people that have a child of my ms sons age claim that back then the guidelines were 4 month and well, admittedly weaning at 6 month was still not somehting a lot of Hv's seemed to tell mothers it was indeed already the advice....back then I was lucky to have 1 Hv that knew that, and backed me up all the way, when my main Hv and her assistent applied pressure on me to wean earlier, pure cincidence...although, I would have just printed the Info on the WHO website out and shown them...like I mentioned earlier the reason why the whole official stanc eto 6 month weaning is changed is that the Maternity law have changed, as they felt it would put undue pressure onto working mums , inducing even more guilt if they changed the guidleines BEFORE the Maternity leave was changed to a longer time, etc....I find that quite sad, if understandable.

[percypig]

A bit late in coming back to this - but great post welliemum!

[kittywaitsfornumber6]

In the end it should come down to what is best for your child at a particular time. Guidlines are only guidlines. Anyone who follows any advice blindly and rigidly is very foolish indeed imho.

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

Kitty, no one is implying that one should follow guidelines blindly, but one certainly just shouldn't ignore it and one should certainly look into the reasons behind guidelines and some facts can't be ignored.

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

I mean, with weaning forinstance, unless you put a endoscope into your Kid and know what ya looking for, you ain't gonna know if their gut is ready or not...there is NO danger in witholding solids for 6 month, but there is some risk if you do give them before that.

[hunkermunker]

Wellie, great post! PMSL!

Kitty, guidelines are just that, guidelines. But they're evidence-based and there is a lot of research to support later weaning being far better for future health than weaning early.

But obviously if a mother of a 3mo thinks that their baby is ready for pap then so be it - her instinct must override everything else.

FGS.

[WeaselMum]

am I the only one who owns up to not having any natural instinct about their baby? (apart from the one that means you pick your baby up when it cries - but that's not instinct, it's obvious!)

I didn't know when he needed to feed, or just suck, or whether he was irritable because he needed sleep or something else...took me ages to work him out... and yes, I do now know him better than anyone else but I honestly think that's evidence based research, not instinct!

when it came to weaning - ds went through several growth spurts and fed more often etc but he always resettled after a week or so. I am glad I didn't give him solids until 6 months because it's much more effort than milk feeds, frankly.

[welliemum]

I really, really, really should have been working instead of wittering on. But, er, thanks!

Just wanted to say, I don't think evidence based practice and instinct are opposites or that you have to do only one or the other.

I've spent a lot of time reading about various parenting issues but if one of my children gets sick and I wonder if it could be something serious, I don't look in a book: I look at the child and I trust my instincts.

But so much of what we do is not instinct at all; it's cultural, and weaning is one of those things. Look at how weaning practices differ through time and around the world. If it was instinctive, we'd all be doing roughly the same thing.

It seems potty to me to favour my own cultural prejudices above solid evidence.

[welliemum]

That sounds pretty normal to me, WeaselMum. There wouldn't be all those parenting books if everyone just knew what to do with a new baby. It's a learning curve for everyone I think.

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

lol, I remember reading the Babywhisperer and the part on different cries and how she discribed them...thought that was utterly hilarious, like such a table can teach you actually what your child wants....only way you learn it to listen to your child, imo....

[Ceebee74]

3 - god yes, I remember sitting there with the baby whisperer book when ds was about 4 weeks old really upset because all his cries sounded the same to me and i felt so guilty and such a rubbish mum for not understanding my own son!

[hunkermunker]

Farking Annabel farking Karmel now has a range of ready meals out (she of the home cooked boil, blend and spoon in fame). The irony.

[welliemum]

Oh, can you now buy ready-made snails with smiley faces?

[Chillout]

At huge risk of asking a question I really don't want to know the answer to...
what is a snail with a smiley face?

[3LoveHeartsAndNoMore]

lol hunker...yeah that is rather ironic I