To think that David Cameron should have to answer for what he's done?

[MsHooliesCardigan]

This is not about the rights and wrongs of leaving the EU but about accountability.
DC decided to hold the referendum for his own political ends, it wasn't because the electorate were all clamouring for it.
It was a far too complex question to be put to a simple Yes/No vote.
For a referendum to be legally binding, terms are set out beforehand about the minimum turnout and majority required which didn't happen so it was advisory but voters were told that it was binding.
And, most shockingly, absolutely NO plans were made as to what would happen if we voted to leave as DC was too arrogant to consider that he might actually lose. The whole shitstorm that is Brexit was released which almost undoubtedly played a part in Trump getting elected (I know there are lots of differences but there are definite similarities and DT himself referred to 'Brexit plus plus).
And the next day, Cameron just fucks off to write his memoirs and spend more time with his money family and leaves everyone else to pick up the pieces for the next 10 years or so.
Is he never going to be held to any kind of accountability for this?
FWIW, I voted Remain but after quite a bit of wavering and I have no issue with Leave voters. The point is that nobody voted for the fucking mess we've been left with.

[ComputerDog]

No, I think that would be a waste of time and money.

There was a referendum and people voted. That's democracy. You or I might not like the result but having something concrete to say that DC was "to blame" won't change that.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I don't agree Cockacidal we'll never know whether UKIP would have been powerful or not, but they were certainly a party on the rise. In my opinion they were gathering momentum.

[toastytoastbear]

I would rather see tony blair held to account. Fucking bastard

[Fruitboxjury]

Taking one step further back, I don't think he should be held accountable for HOLDING it because the country actually voted for a conservative government on the basis of its manifesto (you would hope), in which the promise of an in / out referendum was included.

However, I do think he should be held responsible for the the catastrophic failure in the EXECUTION of his promise for many of the reasons already noted by pps. Both campaigns were based on lies and uncertainty, there should have been a double lock on the result meaning the winning side also had to meet either a minimum population percentage or voter turnout threshold, there should have been better consultation with the EU and the judiciary to understand process before launching into the vote, meaning there would have been better time tabling of outcomes, clearer information on promises they could guarantee to deliver, and absolutely zero opportunity for anyone to either question the outcome or regret their decision afterwards. Personally I also think his timing to hold the vote before the US election was suicide from a security perspective, since the outcome of Brexit + Trump means that relationships with our two most important allies are now under threat.

His failure to plan ANYTHING has now further contributed to the completely unnecessary and frankly nasty divisions that now exist across the country and total loss of credibility that the UK has faced worldwide.

Actually, I really don't know how he can live with himself. If I were him I wouldn't be able to.

[winterisnigh]

I would rather see tony blair held to account

Quite.

total loss of credibility that the UK has faced worldwide

We have not lost credibility at all what a ridiculous statement to make!

[Fruitboxjury]

And for full disclosure I have been a Tory voter all my life. I don't regret my referendum vote but I do wish that there was a credible opposition or alternative to the current government because the embarrassment that the government has brought upon itself in managing the process before and after is enough for me to know I won't be voting for them again.

[CockacidalManiac]

I don't agree Cockacidal we'll never know whether UKIP would have been powerful or not, but they were certainly a party on the rise. In my opinion they were gathering momentum

If they can appoint a leader that isn't moronic, or an obvious fascist, there's still great potential for them. Especially in the north, plenty of labour votes for the taking.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

toasty If it was a straight choice between Blair and Cameron, I agree with you.
I would place him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, give him nothing but stale bread and water and have 24/7 footage playing in his cell of innocent Iraqi people dying.
Once a week, I would bring him out to be put in the stocks and pelted with manure and rotten fish.

[CockacidalManiac]

We have not lost credibility at all what a ridiculous statement to make!

Think you'll find that we have.

[Fruitboxjury]

Of course we have, it's patently obvious that the entire process has been a complete disaster and we didn't have a clue what we were doing.

[CockacidalManiac]

And for full disclosure I have been a Tory voter all my life. I don't regret my referendum vote but I do wish that there was a credible opposition or alternative to the current government because the embarrassment that the government has brought upon itself in managing the process before and after is enough for me to know I won't be voting for them again.

Well, exactly. Who have we in the Labour Party got to fight our corner? Fucking Calamity Corbyn.

[winterisnigh]

an awful lot of voters had no idea about the logistical complexities of actually leaving


^^ same feeling when you move house, get married, get divorced organise a funeral they are all big life changing things we do and extra issues crop up.

You can say exactly the same for the EU no one knew back in the 70's it would morph into a mass state which puts its own ideology above the people they are supposed to serve. Which would be a political union and everything else, no one voting back in the 70's could understand what they were voting for and what it could and would become.

[winterisnigh]

Of course we have, it's patently obvious that the entire process has been a complete disaster and we didn't have a clue what we were doing.




That statement is like waling into a house under going renovation and saying " wow, what a mess, look at the state of the house, its awful".

[Costacoffeeplease]

Anyone who says they didn't realise how difficult leaving would be, has to be joking right?

How on earth could it not be difficult to disentangle all the laws that have been passed - right down to issuing new passports, driving licences, number plates. Think of the faff of moving house and telling everyone, getting meters read etc, and times it by about 70 billion

[MsHooliesCardigan]

Fruitbox Yes that was exactly my point. I didn't say that the referendum shouldn't have been held. My issue is with the execution and lack of any forward planning.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

Calamity Corbyn

Even though I voted leave and would do the same again, I kind of agree there should have been some conditions in place for the vote to actually cause Brexit i.e. A large majority. It is such a momentous event.

[Fruitboxjury]

That statement is like waling into a house under going renovation and saying " wow, what a mess, look at the state of the house, its awful

Completely agree, if the owner is the kind of novice who finds themselves half way through a renovation having never knocked a house down in their life and without a budget, timeframe, task list, builder, decorator, plumber, idea of materials, lead times or project manager (even if that's a spreadsheet).

In fact, a renovation where all you have is a pile of rubble, neighbours pissed off with all the noise and wishing you'd just get on with the job and finish it, and some pretty pictures from a lifestyle magazine that you saw before you started.

I'd expect more from our government personally.

[Peregrina]

TB can take some blame for the influx of E Europeans because he was allowed to put a stay on the numbers for seven(?) years and he chose not too, totally misjudging the numbers who would come. But apart from Lincs and other agricultural areas, where there are concentrations; they are not the major problem in places like the N East and Cornwall, where there aren't all that many as a proportion of the population.

When I lived in the West Country, the big problem was second home owners from the S East pricing out the locals, and then not being there all that much of the time.

[BoredofBrexit]

If he is held to account for anything it should be for pronouncing that the a50 would be served immediately the results were known. That to me is as misleading and inaccurate as the bus slogan. Either he was blasé about a Remain win or he was duped from within as they wanted his resignation and a move to the right, but either way he was careless not to check his position.

[Fruitboxjury]

Either he was blasé about a Remain win or he was duped from within as they wanted his resignation and a move to the right

I'd never thought of this, and I've thought a lot about Brexit

[Peregrina]

I think he was blasé myself - his surprise win in 2015 partly went to his head, and partly it was a promise he never expected to keep. He would have blamed the LibDems for thwarting him.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

I'd have thought loads of Trump supporters wouldn't have even heard of Brexit, to be honest.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I agree Peregrina. He was complacent about Scotland and had to move heaven and earth, and he was complacent about Brexit, he simply didn't expect it to happen.

[CockacidalManiac]

It's confirmation of the butterfly 'chips' theory that an internal Tory party spat led to the referendum which led to Brexit which led to Trump being inspired by (and banging on about) it which led to the end of the world as we know it.

[CockacidalManiac]

Not fucking 'chips' theory! 'Chaos' theory!