That people expect too much from doctors/hospitals

[MerylPeril]

DHs uncle is in a poor way and has been for s long time.

He has spent 70-80% of the last year in hospital. He has hardly been awake for the current visit where his family were told he won't be allowed home again (he goes home for a few days - ends back in hospital). He has a variety of health problems and is in his 80s
I should point out he has been bad at taking notice of medical advice in the past which have made issues worse.

His daughter is furious though.
She harasses nursing staff /doctors/ consultants. She wants all of his issues 'sorted' (I know this is an emotional issue as well) and fixed.

But she also seems to think he should be having personal round the clock care on the wards - and I mean 'personal', for him to be attended too without delay every second of the day.
She talks about putting complaints in because nurses were having lunch etc

I know it's her dad and she loves him BUT it's exhausting us as well - when she's not at hospital she is complaining about how terrible it is.

I've only had amazing treatment from the NHS but there must be a point where they can only do so much. Really he should have been in a home but they blocked that as they wanted him well and home and didn't see why the doctors couldn't do that.

He is the longest lasting out of his siblings currently.
I'm tired out from it on DHs behalf - he watched his own mother die from similar issues and has to listen to it all - whilst secretly believing his uncle (he is also close to) would be better dying quietly than no quality of life.

I'm starting to think that people expect doctors to perform miracles! We've had another long night of this conversation, been the same for the last year. I feel sorry that his daughter and her children are suffering from this now too.

[moreslackthanslick]

I'm torn,

My 85 year old father (independent but a bit frail at times) broke his hip in June.


He's still in hospital after infection after infection and mainly talks utter shit daily. I'd rather have a phone call to tell me he's passed away at this point.

I appreciate the NHS and they have done wonders for me but this situation isn't good at all.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Firstly the NHS is not free. If it is can we have the money we have paid into it over the years back.

The NHS according to family doctor gets you to 70 years old then their job is done.

If you have had a brilliant time with the NHS then bully for you. But on a recent visit to a hospital ward everyone on the ward had not only diagnosed themselves but had battled to get the treatment whilst being treated like they were stupid.

[MistressDeeCee]

His daughter is furious though.
She harasses nursing staff /doctors/ consultants. She wants all of his issues 'sorted' (I know this is an emotional issue as well) and fixed

Its her dad. She is going through a very distressing time panicking inside, confused, lashing out in her way. Knowing the inevitable but not how to deal with and process it. Hospital staff will have come across this kind of thing before and will know how to deal with it or fend her off in some way.

Those working in the NHS and going on about being under-resourced: thats not the patients etc fault..yes massively funded but at least people do pay National Insurance the NHS is not totally free in that respect. I never understand here why the working classes blame each other for everything and when it comes to the higher ups who cause the issues, seem to be incapable of protesting it well but maybe its too hard to effect change so its easier to scapegoat



Its a shame you are using this situation to start a thread about wasting hospital time etc. If this were a friend/relative of mine thats the last thing that would be on my mind to do. You sound judgmental, and unable to quantify that people are not perfectly programmed robots yes sometimes they are irrational. A time of impending bereavement I think is one of those times, it panics you and you feel you need to be "doing"

If you're this unsympathetic then swerve her.

[carabos]

The problem is that there's no Plan B. The country is wedded to the NHS and private services exist only in the margins - without a truly independent private primary care sector, having the opportunity to have your operation or investigation in a private secondary care setting is neither here nor there.

I would like to opt out - I'd like insurance and I'd like to pay my GP so that I can get an appointment when I want it. Nobody is talking seriously about an alternative primary care system and there aren't enough people to staff it anyway. The NHS is on its last legs but nobody will do the right thing, which is tear it down and start again.

[Hysterectical]

To add, I have to pay £500 a WEEK to keep my dad off the street. He is in the final stages of disease and gets no help at all for his fees. His social worker is a stupid moron who can barely write her own name. He was a high level tax payer his whole life and lost everything after he became ill. I can't describe how stupid the people I have dealt with are although luckily all 12 social workers I have encountered have spent at least half their working week sick.

[Wishforsnow]

The NHS is just not very good. We pay huge amounts for it and it is most definitely not the envy of the world. Other countries provide much better care

[Toolateagain]

Who's lecturing old ladies on buses?

[neonrainbow]

If nobody ever complained about the nhs then nothing would ever improve. People are entitled to a basic standard of care and if you're not getting it then of course you should complain.

[frikadela01]

A nation of lazy, entitled and very sadly misguided people. Lecturing old ladies.on buses? Fuck off

If that's the way you feel about the British people I suggest you should fuck off to somewhere that does it better.

[Hysterectical]

inthenickoftime

I was having a conversation with an older woman on the bus about this. I think people don't understand how lucky we are to have the NHS.

Silly old woman. Who was promised treatment from cradle to grave.

[thecapitalsunited]

I lost an elderly relative recently and many of her children also seemed unable to process the fact that she was going to die. They just kept asking why she couldn't have the operation to fix the thing wrong with her even though they had been told that she wasn't strong enough to cope with either then length or the invasiveness of the operation.

Some people just cannot cope with death. These relatives only 'realised' she was going to die about an hour before she went. They had been told two days prior to her death that there was nothing to be done and she would be gone in a matter of days. No one wants their mum to die so they just couldn't admit it to themselves until they could deny it no more.

I do think we should talk more about death and dying. It's a natural part of life but it's unbelievably taboo to talk about it. I asked my DH what he would want me to do when he dies and he told me off for being morbid! But if we had these conversations and admitted to ourselves that we all die, would it be easier to cope with death and dying?

[ArgyMargy]

Oliversmum the NHS is free at the point of use. Of course you can't have the tax back - a ridiculous comment showing your ignorance of how public services work. I don't go to school but I'm not asking for that bit of my tax back. I didn't vote for my MP but I'm not asking for my contribution to her salary back. I don't get any benefits but I don't moan about paying towards those who do. I too am sick of people moaning about how bad the NHS is and expecting instant diagnoses and miracle cures while demanding antibiotics for everything and taking zero responsibility for keeping themselves healthy.

[Hysterectical]

Haa Haa I don't think she was being serious. Holy crap some people look for offence in the most peculiar things.

[Sallystyle]

We need to accept that people die when they get old and that we should not try to save everybody.

I couldn't agree more. I am always scared to voice that opinion though.

I have looked after patients in their 90's who can't talk, can't mobilise, thin sore skin etc and they are on lots of meds and I think what is the point? What quality of life are they living being bed bound, unable to communicate and in a lot of pain? Med after med to keep them alive.

My granddad is very poorly and the care he has recently received has been disgusting. The GP missed his fluid retention from heart failure even though they looked at his legs, ankles and hands. When he went to hospital he was discharged after one night even though he has heart failure, a wicked UTI which caused paranoid delusions and he fell over lots of times. They needed the bed, he was not fit for discharge. Especially not to his wife who is elderly and struggles with mobility herself. Still waiting for a community nurse to come round to TWOC him. Thankfully we have been able to care for him around our work schedules. It took a few days to get him admitted despite paramedics coming out, a visit to the GP and one trip to A&E.

In some ways people expect too much. In another way we can be too grateful for bad or mediocre care because it is free at the point of use. I know how much strain the NHS is under, the majority of staff do the best that they can but I don't think our NHS is great anymore, although of course people have fantastic experiences, far too many have bad experiences and it isn't acceptable.

[MerylPeril]

Me and DH were talking last night further and about how much a problem issues like this are for the NHS.

Uncle has no quality of life (and hasn't for a long time) he's been barely conscious for a while.
The pressure on the NHS is to keep these people alive - what would have happened 50 years ago?

DH and I take medication that helps us live - we basically are being kept artificially alive to a certain extent. But we have good quality of life, jobs, children etc

How many people are being kept alive basically for the benefit of relatives. What would have happened to uncle if his daughter wasn't sat there.

It's a confusing issue and as someone said all our expectations are wrong now. I'm not taking about euthanasia but maybe less over medication for the sake of it.
I do know 2 old people who refused to take medication at a certain point because they realised it was just keeping them alive and they had no life at all.

I'm not unsympathetic- we have had to deal with this for 2-3 hours most nights for the last year - it's exhausting. DH is under constant pressure to travel the 5/6 hours to visit unconcious uncle - he's been several times this year already.
Like someone said we are now waiting for the phone call to say he has died - not just relief for us, but for him and his daughter and her 2 small children.

[jimijack]

When reading stuff like this it makes me feel embarrassed to be part of the nhs, however I have had years of dealing with "difficult, unreasonable, nasty" relatives.
These people are impossible, cannot be passified are relentless, use any tactic they can to get what they want, not always in the patients best interest and absolutely take the pleasure and love out of nursing.

Only yesterday my colleague was called a "fucking useless Bitch" by a patient's daughter because she couldn't restore an 87 year old woman's hearing by irrigating her ears, the daughter then demanded something to be done, audiology was offered, not good enough, gp appointment not good enough, what do people want?

It has made me want to leave the profession over & over again, not the shortness of staff, not the work load, not the lack of a break on a 14 hour shift, not the working the whole Christmas and New year period for 6 years on the run, it's these people. They affect me for days after incidents sometimes.

[Hysterectical]

I think for most of us just treating our relatives with a tiny bit of respect and dignity would suffice.

[Sallystyle]

This is why I keep going back and forth on whether or not I want to do my nursing degree.

Pretty much every seasoned nurse has told me that if they had their time again they would never have trained.

[ENormaSnob]

Dont do it u2.

I also feel as jimijack does.

[jimijack]

Probably being controversial saying this but some people, are professional complainers, you can clearly see those who are distressed, anxious and desperate when complaining or asking for answers, and those are just bloody minded awkward argumentative relatives. I think that this is probably how they are in most situations in life.
They are going to be this way no matter how their relative is treated.

[Sadik]

Hysteretical, I'd be interested to know your comparison countries. I've lived in Spain, and I'd say the health services were roughly comparable (both have their faults but in different ways.)

A friend returned from France in major part because of struggles with the health service (young person with a chronic complaint, not IBS but that sort of thing) - French is her first language, English I think her 3rd, so it's not because of language issues, & she was working so in the insurance system.

US - different problem in that obviously you can get excellent health care with the right insurance, but there I certainly know friends who have taken a job they didn't really want because of health insurance, rather than being self employed (and I think in at least one case they lost the chance to build a really decent business). That is a bit out of date mind you so may have changed. But certainly their system delivers massive health inequality.

[ArgyMargy]

I'm not offended Hysterectical, just despair at people's stupidity and selfishness. Perhaps not helped by listening to street interviews on Radio 4 this morning about Brexit...

[AnnaT45]

I would discuss a hospice with her. If you can get your uncle moved there I think it could really help her emotionally.

When mum was moved to a hospice it made me realise there was nothing else to try and it was about being comfortable and relaxed. In a hospital there's expectations thing can be done to get them better.

[inthenickoftime]

I stopped reading after I was accused of lecturing old women on buses. Far from it actually. She actually brought up the NHS and said how much she appreciated it. She is a breast cancer survivor and she credits the NHS with her being alive today.

I don't know if I give off the impression of some kind of bully but I'm far from it. She thanked me for a lovely conversation. I think HYSTERECTICAL is the bully on this thread.