To think this is a serious safe guarding issue

[Susieqt]

I went to my regular toddler group this morning and I'm aware one of the mums has a partner who was recently committed to a mental health hospital because he was hearing voices and seriously harmed their child. Well this morning HE was at the group with her. I overheard her telling the lady that ran the group he was doing really well (so the organizer is well aware of the issue) but quite frankly I don't give a shit, I don't want him anywhere near my child and I don't think he should be in a place full of children when he has harmed his own! Aibu to think he should have been asked to leave? I honestly can't see that I am BU, am I?

[Amandahugandkisses]

Op trust your instincts. It's v sad he was unwell but it does seem a strange setting for him to be in. That said it's not a play date.

[Beatsretreats]

What did he do to the child? Broke under the strain and hurt the child by accident fare enough

Actively sought out the child to hurt him/her. No I wouldn't be happy either

[YetAnotherHelenMumsnet]

Hi Navy,
It was a drive by deletion, unfortunately, because you'd quoted something that had to go. No fault on your part, rest assured.

[ItShouldHaveBeenJess]

I can understand the OP's concerns, and attacking her for her opinions isn't particularly useful or educative. When I was in the early days of alcohol recovery, I attended a playgroup for parents with addiction issues. It was not only an opportunity for our kids to play together, but also to meet other mums and dads who had shared the same experiences, without feeling judged.

The staff to child ratio was fairly high, and obviously, no parent could enter if they were under the influence (and no-one, to my knowledge, attempted to do so). In the OP's case, it sounds like a regular playgroup. I imagine that the father has been encouraged to participate in such engagements as part of his rehabilitation into family life, and would also guess that group leaders had been made aware of his issues re: safeguarding.

However, attacking the OP with regards to her concern shows the very same lack of empathy and understanding she is being accused of not having. She was worried, rightly or wrongly, for the welfare of her child, which I think is a fairly normal feeling when you are a parent.

[DoinItFine]

YANBU at all.

A man who seriously hurt a toddler last week is an obvious concern at a toddler group.

People are just enjoying giving you a kicking.

It's not their babies in a small room where the biggest, strongest person gas a recent history of violence against children.

[Mummytojane]

The toddlers are at the group with parents, so I think the risk to the children is Absouletly minimum if there is any risk at all. The children are not left alone with him. Based on that I would have no problem attending a group if he was present

His a Dad with mental health issues attending a group, which I am sure many parents do everyday.

Maybe he did hurt the child when he was in the worse of his illness, but it can't of been awfully "serious" or he wouldn't be back home with them. Mental illness at its worse can make people do things that even they are ashamed of when on the road to recovery.

I know when your a parent OP you have a strong desire to keep them safe but I hope some posts on here will help you think it over problerly and see there really is minimal risk as all children are in the care of parents at the group

[DoinItFine]

Being in the same room as your child doesn't immunise them from harm from a strong man prone to violent outbursts, particularly if all of the other parents are women.

Maybe he did hurt the child when he was in the worse of his illness, but it can't of been awfully "serious" or he wouldn't be back home with them.

Or perhaps the people who released him were not told the full extent of what he did.

Are people really so blindly trusting that they presume all violent mrn with mental health issues are effectively managed and pose no danger?

Don't you ever listen to the news on the wireless?

It doesn't matter how ashamed people imagine he might be. That has nothing to do with whether he poses a risk.

[Mishegoss]

If you were to kick up a fuss and get him removed you're likely to put the mother off of coming back again. That puts her and her little one at risk of being isolated which is very clearly not what they need at the moment. If the hospital have released him they must think he is ok to be out in public, he'll probably be getting support from the community team too. Add that to the fact that you're there with your child at group, I can't really see a problem. You're probably in close proximity to a lot of people who have done terrible things on a daily basis when you're going about your business and you'll never know.

[Coughingchildren5]

Yanbu.

Most of the pp saying YABU seem to be indicating they do not believe he really seriously injured a child while unwell.

Well I doubt the mother would have gone about claiming he had if there hadn't really been a serious incident.

Someone has made an error in judgement somewhere but I wouldn't feel comfortable either.

Yes, people with mental health illness which caused them to injure a child, should be supported to rehabilitate into family life but not at open toddler playgroups.

[Cocklodger]

Wow.
I haven't heard an attitude like that in quite some time.
YABU.

[stitchglitched]

YANBU, I agree with what DoinItFine said. I also think some posters have a misguided faith in the current state of mental health services to think nobody who poses a risk could possibly slip through the net.

[Beatsretreats]

Christ OP what did he do?

Throw the baby on the bed whilst losing it is a bit different to strangled the baby for kicks

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

If the group leader is aware of the situation then it might be better to ask them to allay your concerns because no-one on MN has any idea whether this is a safeguarding issue or not. We don't know if SS were involved. We don't know if SS placed any restrictions around his contact with DCs and we don't know the advice given by his MH team.
Lots of posters are assuming that all the appropriate services were involved, that advice was given and that the family are following it.

[ItShouldHaveBeenJess]

I agree with PPs. Education and understanding of MH issues needs to be massively developed, and there is still much ignorance and judgement surrounding these topics; HOWEVER, no parent wants to expose their child to an adult who may or may not be unpredictable.

[chloesays]

OpI have a partner who suffers mh problems and both myself and he are quite shocked at this post! Please don't assume he will hurt you or your children. He was ill whilst he acted that way and I'm sure if it was as serious as you are saying then he wouldn't still be in that relationship. I think you may need to educate yourself on this subject

[wowbutter]

Attending the group may be part of his recovery.

There were no safeguarding concerns. Each child had an adult, and that man had no access to hurt them. If he was a risk he would be under professional care.

[DoinItFine]

I'm sure if it was as serious as you are saying then he wouldn't still be in that relationship.

WTF?

You have no basis on wgich to be sure of snything of the kind.

I think you may need to educate yourself on this subject.

I think you might need to.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

wowbutter you can't know that there were no safeguarding concerns. You don't know if the children always sit beside their parents or move freely around the room. You can't know that all the appropriate professionals agreed the dad should attend a toddler group. You might be right but you might not.

[chloesays]

DoinItfine that's aimed at me right? Like I said my partner has serious mh issues but I can assure you if he hurt my child then I couldn't live with him! For his and their sakes. Surely you agree

[stitchglitched]

Well chloe both myself and my DP have a history of MH problems which includes hospitalisation and I don't think it is shocking to be concerned that an adult who allegedly seriously hurt a toddler 7 days ago is attending a toddler group.

[stitchglitched]

The mother herself told the OP it was serious and she is still in a relationship with him so what you would or wouldn't do isn't really relevant to this situation.

[WannaBe]

What a load of politically correct bollocks on this thread.

So you'd all be happy for a violent man who had seriously harmed his child just a week ago to be at your local toddler group so long as he had MH health issues to excuse his violence? Get real.

As for "the mother wouldn't be in a relationship with him if it had been serious," so all those women who stay in violent relationships and for who it takes dozens of violent incidents to leave, is that different? No didn't think so. In fact I'd imagine that the diagnosis of MH issues makes it even harder to leave a violent partner because of the guilt over leaving someone who is ill. Guilt which is being suggested on this very thread.

The facts as the OP knows them are that a week ago this man seriously harmed his child, was sectioned for a period, and is now back with his partner who has seemingly allowed him back into her life (I wouldn't.) If she'd taken him back after he'd beat her up would people have the same attitude?

Of course people with MH issues shouldn't be excluded from society. But people whose MH issues mean that they are a danger to others do need boundaries, and I certainly wouldn't be assuming that everyone had worked together to ensure this man was safe, or even that they would have been aware he was even going to the toddler group.

TBH OP if you know the name of the mum I would give SS a call and express your concerns. It's entirely possible that they are unaware that this man was even at a toddler group so soon after harming his own child. While there may be stipulations, nobody is there overseeing them 24/7 so it's entirely possible he may still be considered a risk but that he wanted to prove himself worthy of going to a toddler group esp if he knew his partner has been telling all about what he's done.

[ohdearme1958]

The OP had her young child with her where there was a man who had recently been sectioned and had allegedly harmed his child

You say he allegedly harmed his child then you say he did harm his child because the mother told you. So which one is it?

Personally I think if he did really harm the wee one there would be safeguarding in place and that doesnt seem to be the case so I doubt it ever happened. Any of it.

[stitchglitched]

Well said Wannabe.