to have tealights burning in reach of my toddler?

[BayLeaves]

He is 2.5 and I have told him not to touch them. They are on the coffee table which is not in the middle of the room so they can't be knocked over by accident (although they could be knocked over on purpose).

He has come to look at them and I've told them it could burn him or set his clothes on fire, he seems to understand and is leaving them alone.

(The reason I want them on is because it helps make the room nice and warm. )

I'm sure this is really terrible and dangerous through hence the AIBU?!

Tanith, having grown up in Scandinavia (this being the candle-obsessed society I was talking about) my impression is that it is not as simple as it looks: what seems to us like extreme laissez-faire can in fact be coupled with extreme vigilance- and with strong demarcations between extreme vigilance scenarios and more lax supervision.

As I said my parents had candles in their Christmas tree. But the tree was only lit at certain times when everybody was at high alert (and no alcohol was served so high alert perfectly possible). At other times we were allowed to roam around the house unsupervised. But the two things did not coincide.

My bet would be that that nursery either only has the tealights and firepit lit at certain sit-down sessions (which the children would be socialised into _ heavily supervised) or even that they are in a separate room where no ordinary playing takes place. Also that these are kids who get far more open air running around time than most British kids.

A 2-year-old can parrot the words he has heard about dangerous cars or whatever. But he cannot possibly understand what the danger from cars or fire really means. Two-year-olds simply have not developed the cognitive abilities for that. And their natural curiosity and lack of impulse control can lead to them darting into a road or grabbing a candle, no matter how many times they have heard admonishments about danger.

Lit candles on a low table and toddlers really don't mix. Put the candles somewhere he can't reach them. They aren't adding warmth to the room anyway (though they can certainly be part of a lovely, cosy atmosphere).

Yep, he's risk aware until something distracts him and his clothing catches fire.......

Thank god the majority of MNs aren't willing to assume anything of the sort!

I wouldn't use tea lights where either a toddler or dog with waggy tail could reach as its not worth the risk. The thing is op you've risk assessed that it's ok but if you're wrong it will be your child who will pay the price when their clothes catch fire. You will feel guilty but they will be the one in the burns unit if 'lucky' or morgue if not.

The problem isn't that children (not just toddlers) do or don't know what's dangerous, it's that children are unpredictable.

If a child had true understanding about actions and consequences we would only have to tell them 'no' once. And that's simply not the case. They might well appear to 'know' at the moment of telling them but that is no indication that they will remember 5 minutes later.

The other problem is that parents assume (wrongly) that their child has understanding of action and consequence because nothing bad happens when they expose them to risk, or nothing bad happened to them when they were children taking similar risks. But even older children and teens forget about consequences when they are distracted or egged on.

Most childhood deaths from accidents in the home aren't caused from neglect but from parents thinking "it won't happen to me".

I'm not risk averse but I did (when my children were small) make sure that they weren't exposed to unnecessary danger.

I wouldn't have done it at 2, but my DS's preschool did. For special occasions they decorated glass tea light holders then has them lot on the table while they ate. Didn't seem to be an issue, though I was a bit surprised when I saw it. I also took DS to something a bit like a forest school a few weeks ago and there were two open fire pits and kids toasting marshmallows.

I'm too nervous at home though. We have battery tea lights at child level and if I want to have a scented candle on it's away from child height.

Yes, it's true, Bob, that fences around swimming pools mean that children are more likely to be supervised while swimming in them. But that's not what your post said. You said that children in Australia were made aware of how to swim safely; supervision was not mentioned. And a 2 yo is too little to have been taught safety around water or flame, unsupervised.

I agree that if children are supervised near danger, and are taught to safely use potentially dangerous tools, partly by adults modelling safe use of equipment, then it is beneficial for them.

But your post really didn't make that clear.

(Also, I get pissed off with people holding up some Australian policies as paragons of pragmatism - Australian points based immigration, for example - without having a clue about the actualities of how they work or often don't work, in practise. Which is my issue, and nothing to do with you!)

My rule with risk is this:

If the worst happened, could I say that I'd done everything to prevent it and the accident was unforseeable. If the answer is No, and a child was injured or died, I couldn't live with myself.

So in your case, imagine the worst - your child gets badly burned, or starts a dangerous fire. You ask yourself 'Was this forseeable'? The answer is Yes. 'Did I do everything I could to prevent it?'. No. What were the reasons for me ignoring the forseeable risk and not preventing it? - I think tealights are pretty.

Could you live with that?

A tealight is a pan of melted wax, and can cause a severe burn that will need hospital treatment.

My dcs are 7 and 10, and we use battery powered candles in the evening if we want that "candle look" in the front room. I sometimes light candles, but not until after they are in bed and asleep.

They both understand the flame is hot and can burn. But both get active and tend to fling dress up clothing about, and that is a nasty burn waiting to happen. We will continue to use the battery powered candles for awhile longer yet.

YABU. It's very dangerous to leave tea lights burning in reach of a toddler

A child that age doesn't have enough awareness to think "if I run/jump/spin etc I might crash into that table with the tea lights."

That is my point. Yes they can be in a car park and recognise there are cars but they can't be responsible for their actions.

Yes, exactly, Cory: they manage the risk, they don't remove it.

"One accidental bump & a child ends up in a fire pit? One toy lobbed across the room & a tea light gets knocked over." Ginger, that doesn't seem to happen. The question is why not?
Scandinavian nurseries are better able to teach children the risks and to ensure that, even though their approach to H&S would have a British nursery throwing their hands up in horror, they don't seem to have the accidents you might associate with them.

Almost exactly the same accident accident as happened to Claudia Winkleman's daughter occurred in1939, when a 4 year child-actress, Caryll Ann Ekelund, unfortunately died. Shocking that were they still manufacturing flamable costumes all that time.

why shouldn't I tell people they are wrong? This thread, hell this whole forum is full of judgemental people telling others they are wrong, why should I not, just because you disagree?

Did you not read my post. It is about individual RISK ASSESSMENT.

I seriously worry that you are a teacher.

Tanith Sat 01-Oct-16 16:56:18

"Ginger, that doesn't seem to happen. The question is why not?
Scandinavian nurseries are better able to teach children the risks"

Ime they supervise them like hell when anything dangerous like candles is around. I have met very few Scandinavians (any?) who believe that you can trust to the obedience and understanding of a 2yo. Yes, they teach them about risk, but they expect it to take many years for the teaching to sink in, and in the meantime they watch them like hawks.

That's ok. I don't need reassurance from a group of keyboard warriors.

I worry about you as a parent though

If you cant understand that it is ok to let children be near fire when supervised, and taught the risks, there is no hope.

Shouldn't you be off trying to ban the cubs? They could prick their fingers doing the sewing badge!

Are you for real. He's 2.5. Telling him not to touch them isn't going to mean, anything. To him and every 2 year old baby. Every thing is an adventure. Every smell, sound, texture and object.

Please please. Get rid of them or at least put them out of his reach. If anything happens to him. You won't be able to turn back time.

Some of the threads on here recently beggar belief

How could it so much as cross anyone's mind that it's in any way reasonable to have candles in reach of a toddler

Contrarians and militants as far as the eye can see red

Idiocy. FFS.

Right: are you on glue?

My sister does this kind of thing and then goes on about how she is teaching her children to manage risk and how I'm far too neurotic.

What's actually the case is that she's trusting to pure blind luck rather than doing any real assessment of risk. She has always had a "nothing bad will happen to me" mentality.

She's bloody lucky nothing awful has happened so far. Doesn't mean it won't.

Two things.

1. If you ask my school age ds what will happen if he doesn't look when he crosses the road, he will tell you. 99% of the time he holds my hand or waits for my OK after looking and saying it's clear. And randomly he forgets himself and runs across our quiet estate road. You cannot rely on a 2 yr old to think logically.

1. Do you have appropriate First Aid eqipment and training? A fire blanket?

tea lights within reach of a young toddler.....this probably isn't going to end well. bin the candles and get some little electric ones. or a string of fairy lights hung up very high where toddler can't possibly reach?