Fine dining with kids, yes or no?

[luckymommy]

So, we went away for the weekend as a family for a family celebration, and booked a table at a fancy restaurant at a hotel. They class it as fine dining, and it was fancy but not the super duper end of fine dining either.

Booked a couple of months in advance, had numerous telephone and email conversations with them, explained before I booked there would be 2 children aged 12 months, and 3 yrs. They confirmed children were welcome, no problem. They said they would offer a children's menu and provide a high chair.

Also explained it was for my parents 40th anniversary.

We got dressed up, went along, sat down. No problem. Kids were being well behaved, sitting still, excited. (This doesn't always happen but made sure they were all napped up ready!) However, my 12 month old was noisy, not screaming or shouting but he was babbling away, granted at some volume, but not shouting or screaming. As 1 year olds do, or so I thought.

The waiter brought us water and menus. The manager then came over, and said 'I'm sorry but we are unable to tolerate noise in fine dining'.

I could have cried there and then, I apologised and we got up and left. Felt rather humiliated.

We overheard the couple next to us saying they didn't like what had just happened and they left with us.

I understand people don't like noisy kids in certain situations, but I had repeatedly checked the kids would be OK, and they were so helpful to accommodate us over the phone for a special occasion. This isn't something we normally do, but it was a treat.

Anyway, we ended up wondering aimlessly around somewhere we didn't know on a Saturday evening trying to find somewhere to eat that could accommodate 8 of us last minute. We ended up at a hight street Italian chain where the staff where incredibly lovely and welcoming.

AIBU to be upset at basically being asked to leave, despite assurances children (they knew the ages) would be welcome?

[BarbaraofSeville]

Oh, just noticed it's an old thread bumped by someone doing a survey .

[LagunaBubbles]

This thread is a few months old and looks like its been resurrected for marketing purposes!

[Flowercat16]

I wouldn't take a baby ( or toddler) to a fine dining restaurant. It's just commonsense. When they are around four it's okay as long as they can manage to stay at the table and not be disruptive.

Babies and toddlers are just too unpredictable.

[objectsintherearviewmirror]

I can see where you are coming from - you asked if you could bring them, communicating their ages, and were understandably upset to be told that a babbling baby was not ok. I'd have been embarrassed too and it sounds as though they treated you very disrespectfully. However, perhaps their idea was that quiet children are fine, not babbling ones. I am no way of the 'children should be seen and not heard' brigade - that's absolutely not what I'm saying at all - but I am just trying to see how the dichotomy between what they said on the phone and what they said in person, could have arisen.
Having said that, to be absolutely honest with you, if I was in a nice restaurant, whether fine dining or not, a babbling baby would annoy me. I would feel that I was paying for a relaxed meal and wouldn't be getting it. I get that it was a special occasion, but it could have been a special occasion for other guests too and I just don't think a fancy restaurant is appropriate for a noisy child, however pleasant that noise was. I suppose it depends on the type of restaurant - if it was generally noisy, bistro style, kind of thing with nice food that's very different of course to a nice, quiet atmosphere. I'm sorry you had a bad experience though, it sounds like you did everything you could to check the requirements, that you prepared your children, and were treated badly by the staff.

[objectsintherearviewmirror]

Oh. Just noticed posts about being old thread for a survey.

[squizita]

I think the point is which many on this thread have missed is that this is NOT a "fine dining" establishment. It's a place with a fucking kiddie menu.

I would be interested what the actual manager says as opposed to that waiter/duty manager. I've worked in places where policy shifted (or appeared to) shift to shift because of a jobsworth or power tripper.

As someone said up thread they appear to think it's fine dining when it's not. YANBU.

[harderandharder2breathe]

I was going to say yabu as fine dining isn't really suitable for young children BUT they sssured you it was fine and they offer a children's menu! IMO anywhere that offers a children's menu is saying children are welcome.

[Statelychangers]

When the dcs were tiny we only took them out for nice lunches.....evenings are adult time, unless you're eating in a chain or an Italian.

[Lifeonthefarm]

The restaurant shouldn't allow children if it doesn't want them to make noise.

We have a pub and a restaurant. Pub family friendly, restaurant adults only 10yrs plus. Every year atleast one family kicks off they can't take their brats in the restaurant - I say brats, because anyone who has got arsey is just the reason we don't allow them, because the kids are just as bad mannered as the parents.
We give kids colouring etc and train our staff to try to see when a mother/parent is struggling with their sprog and to try to help them out with food quickly, colouring or just by making them feel welcome so they relax.

I have a baby and wouldn't take them to a fine dining restaurant, but if they have high chairs and a kids menu they are sending mixed messages! Yanbu.

[magratvonlipwig]

Please ignore the "you shouldnt have cried" posts. Whether you did or didnt or just felt like you wanted to its very understandable to be upset at a spoiled special event.
I think since they said your baby was welcome, provided a high chair and a childrens menu, you did absolutely nothing wrong. And babies are expected to babble.
Fine dining establishments dont have high chairs and dont provide childrens menus.
They were out of order and a complaint would be perfectly ok.

The other couple leaving at the same time validates this.

[SabineUndine]

If you told them you would have a baby of 12 months with you and they said ok, they are at fault. Babies are noisy. It's what they do. However as others say, a restaurant with a children's menu is not fine dining.

[Babydontcry]

I would see both sides but for one thing, you checked they told you several times it was fine. How can a child babbling even loudly be chastised they are being a child, what did they expect you to do. I also don't think you over reacted it was a special occasion that was obviously important to you and I would of found it upsetting as well. Pleased that the night improved even if not as planned.

[bluebellsparklypants]

It's a shame after all your planning & looking forward to the evening then for it to turn out that way.
I would speak to the place and see what they have to say for themselves,
(Just to add A happy baby normally cheers people up and if they don't then their just a misery guts)

[Bluntness100]

Ah, I'm sorry this happened to uou. By your own admission your child was being " noisy" and yes this would indeed be not acceptable in a lot of places including those that accepted kids. There is indeed a difference between allowing children and accepting noisy. It's two different things, and I speak as a parent who has been there,

They accepted your child, but his level of noise was seen as unacceptable and they said no. They have that right and they have to think of other diners not just your right to bring your kid,

[PickAChew]

If the waiter directly protested that the dining was too fine for a whinging child, then they were trying too hard for the experience that you really had.

[PickAChew]

Though poo at the zombie thread.

[Happyhippy45]

If somewhere has a children's menu it's not fine dining. They were out of order.
A long time ago in another life time my family plus our babysitter/friend checked out an expensive restaurant to review it for DH to take clients to.
We were told that the young gentleman had to wear a tie.(our son) He was about 4 or 5. His sister aged 7-8 was easier to dress. I'm a chef. I've never been so offended by the attitude of the waiter.....and was seriously disappointed by the food.

[Afrikasmum]

I suspect that the restaurant thought it would be OK but that another diner complained. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with this but I think it would be fairer on everyone if restaurants specified times that children would be accepted in a restaurant, for example between 6 and 8.30, and then made it adults only time. That way people who want to eat out with their children as a family group have an acceptable time frame to do so and those who want to eat as a couple or adult family group have child-free time.

[QueenOfTheNaps]

OP, as an aside, I find that Italian restaurants owned and run by true Italians are so welcoming to children. I think it's an Italian way, they are used to taking their children out for long dinners! In future, book Italian. Not this stuffy 'think they're fine dining' hotel. Pfffft.

Complain. And please, name and shamed

[Ericaequites]

In general, if two parents or other caring adults are present, one will take a noisy child out of even casual places, walking and calming them until they can be more quiet.

[OhTheRoses]

Have rtft. Your baby was being too noisy. Nothing was being done to distract or quieten him down. The noise was disproportionate to the environment. You were told that but chose to leave rather than deal with the noise that was disturbing others.

Sorry but I think you are being unreasonable.

[BlackbirdSingsInTheDeadOfNight]

I feel for you, OP. It sounds like you did everything you could in advance to check that your DCs would be welcome. Surely a bit of noise is pretty much guaranteed with a one year old and a three year old, so by accepting your booking the restaurant people were saying that this was OK.

A few years ago my brother took us to Simpsons on the Strand for Sunday lunch. DS1 was about 5 (and is autistic, and can be extremely loud/distressed without warning) and DS2 was probably 2 or 3. I told my DB that he was completely mad to take us there, we couldn't possibly be welcome, etc etc, but he promised that it would be fine (he went there fairly often and knew for sure that children were very welcome). We had the nicest lunch and the best experience imaginable, in spite of DS1 and 2 getting bored and turning the underneath of the table into a den and using the long white tablecloth as a tent! We were embarrassed; the waiters were amused and incredibly supportive. A young couple sitting near us started to grumble but the waiters made it absolutely clear that they had no problem with two young boys sitting under the table in a makeshift tent!

I'm never entirely sure what exactly constitutes 'fine dining' - generally an oversized pristine white tablecloth and very heavy forks?! Whatever it is, though, Simpsons was incredibly welcoming and not at all up themselves.

Hope your parents enjoyed their anniversary, OP.

[Oneisenoughokay]

For pittys sake a child before a certain hour (say 8.30 or 9.30) should be as welcome as anyone else. I would have been fuming. We have gone past the point of kids should be seen and not heard. It a lovely thing to include them really actually as adults we should be including them as much as possible so they understand what's expected. I would have had a cow frankly at that point. Yes so some adults may have had to listen to some charming babbling sounds but that's life. Good grief suck up restaurants. Yes crying would have been dealt with and your dignity left intact. Glad they didn't get your money. Xx

[ComputerUserNumptyTwit]

Le Manoir aux Quat’Saisons have a children's menu. Or is Le Manoir not "fine dining"?

[QueenOfTheNaps]

Blackbird

Thank you for reminding me about Simpsons!! I went years ago and have been trying to remember the name of it for so long and I read the thread and it just popped up! Was a lovely restaurant, I'm glad you enjoyed it yourself. And now I have children I will be happy to take them there too