to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

[madhurjazz]

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

[lljkk]

They pay off their mortgage by letting to their tenants.

When we got advice about buy-to-let, 8 yrs ago?, we were told Do Not Pay Off the Mortgage. This was something to do with offsetting the interest for tax reasons, and avoiding a big capital gains tax bill at the end. So better to use a minimal deposit & never pay BTL mortgage off. The BTL strategy was to rely purely on house price rises for making maximum profit. tbh, that idea put me off BTL enormously.

[reallyanotherone]

Btl rarely pays off the mortgage, ime.

You usually get enough to cover interest, repairs, and a bit left over. Unless you are huge property investor and have many mortgage free properties.

I'm currently renting, having relocated. It made more sense to rent while we got to know the area, take our time finding somewhere, and sell our property so we could be chain free.

there are many reasons rental stock is needed.

[madhurjazz]

the amount of entitled yuppies like you that I see questioning why they can't have a mortgage with no deposit/bad credit rating is ridiculous.

Where have I ever said that

Ditto where I've said that everyone should be given a house or not have to pay rent.

[madhurjazz]

I think it's no coincidence that the majority who are saying they would never ever BTL are those who can't afford to buy in the first place.

You have a magic ball?

[SerenDippitee]

We moved across the country a few years ago. We had to move by a certain deadline to start new jobs but we couldn't sell our house in time and had to let it out.

We charged a fair rent for a very decent home. When our tenants gave notice we decided to sell and we are now selling to someone who will live there and make it their home.

What else would you have had us do?

[OhTheRoses]

I agree with user at the top of this page. BTL with a mortgage was a good investment when capital gains outstripped inflation after running costs and CGT upon sale.

If one has capital it's still a worthwhile long term investment - wouldn't have bought in the last twelve months. Might consider in a couple of years.

Bought two small starter homes in trust for the dc about three/four years ago. They are let with rental profit going into the trust. Not as much as you might think when repairs, agents' fees and fallow periods are taken into account. And these are good properties in London.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

I do wonder if this is north/south issue. I'm in the north and the rental on houses is very low.

[Foslady]

I have my home that the mortgage is less than what I could rent the equivalent for. If I lose my job I get no HB and I lose my home.
I would then have to rent which once the equity from my home sale had gone HB would pay for at a higher rate than my mortgage had been. So the government would pay someone else's mortgage but not help me short term if I lost my job pay mine even though it would cost them less.

This is the reason I resent BTL ie the government will pay those investment mortgages but if I needed help would not help me stay in my home. I appreciate the need for the private rental market but parts of the industry do seem unfair.

[Cherrysoup]

Love that the people would have nowhere to live without btl. Because all these houses would jusylt disappear if people weren't speculating on it.

Naive, unrealistic or just angry?

Many people rent because they can't afford the deposit to buy. Where would you have them live? And where should students live? Where should people who are saving for a mortgage live? Or those who have two properties because they bought then met a partner? Should they be forced to sell one?

You say in your OP that btl landlords do it in order to pay off their mortgage. Not being rich, I increased my mortgage in order to buy a btl. The rent pays the mortgage for that property, not the one in which I live. The idea is that in ten years, I can retire and not have to work til I'm in my 70s when I already have mobility issues.

[GoblinLittleOwl]

People say they invest their money in buy to let in place of a pension, because returns on savings are so low at present.
However, I would be interested to know where some of them get their money from in the first place. (avid 'Homes Under The Hammer' watcher; some very dodgy characters on there.)

[Tabsicle]

I have no virtuous reason for being a LL. I just wanted a decent investment that would pay DCs uni fees and eventually our pension. Interest rates are awful and I don't trust that there will be a state pension when we retire. I don't have a mortgage, I just own a couple of flats. I try and be a decent LL - keep flat in good state, look at tenants individual circumstances etc. I don't have much guilt about it. I just think I am working with the reality of the world - rent, uni fees, and a crap pension market. And I think I'm pretty common.

[Shakey15000]

Landlord bashing again I see.

[Ditsy4]

We struggled to buy immediately. We were in Scotland where buying and selling is quite different. We missed my favourite cottage with sea views by a mere £180. I know because the one good thing that came about was that the new owner and I became great friends and so did our children.

Move on 20 years and I was left some money by a relative. My eldest had bought his house ( I had given him deposit) but Son 2 two years older still hadn't and was moving about a bit with his job. House prices were moving quickly for this area so I bought a buy to let and thought I would put Uni students in until he needed somewhere to live. I had also known some Uni accommodation had been awful away and near here and I wanted to offer a property that was clean and fresh. I set about pulling some flooring up and painting the house throughout. I bought new beds and some very good quality secondhand pine furniture in some rooms. I even bought a set of bedding for each room to match the room. I spruced up the bathroom with paint new mirror and shower. I left the kitchen because it was adequate but painted it and put some bright accessories in it. I bought a three piece suite from one of my sons friends because he and his girlfriend were splitting up less than a year after moving in together so it was immaculate and I gave them a good price( better than in the paper) for it.
It was already for the next intake when my son was transferred back to work in our city so he lived in it instead and we let two rooms. We had several people through with no complaints.it is a good sized terrace. Most were young people wanting to leave home or studying but one was someone my son knew from where he used to work. She wanted to transfer and leave her husband but couldn't afford a property of her own. She stayed for about 18 mths till her divorce and sale of house was through. It was ideal for her.
I don't feel we ripped any of those people off. We could have charged a lot more but kept the rent an acceptable amount with a higher quality, larger room than some had been in. It was safe as it had all been checked and alarms etc in.
My youngest son has moved in now and they decided after the last lad that they would rather not have anyone else. They work shifts now so need to sleep in the day sometimes. I put the money back into the house with new kitchen, two new bathrooms and new bespoke windows as it is listed. My children will have the benefit of it not me. I have left it so the second has half and the rest will be split four ways so there should be enough to give two a deposit and a holiday/ car/ savings for two.
So you see we are not all out to "screw the tenants." My daughter is in student accommodation still in her Uni city( still studying short courses) and I do think they should be capped. They( i) pay £370 each. Five of them in an ordinary terraced house where some bedrooms have been split to make more so about 2.5 m x 3m and a small kitchen, diner, tiny lounge. Most of them can't afford to eat because of there rent and are on 0 hour contracts and not able to do what they spent three to four years on a degree because of the rent. He owns several houses because my daughter lived in another that was damp for a year. He also has a very good job in London as I looked him up out of interest. He does get washing machine, fridge etc fixed immediately so I give him points for that.
Apologise for long post but wanted to say not everyone buys to let for the same reason.

[HandbagCrab]

Conditions on a rental mortgage are ime that you cannot rent to someone on housing benefit. Obviously if the landlord does not have a mortgage on the property they can rent to someone who can pay with housing benefit.

We got on the property ladder because at the time you could get a 100% mortgage. I think there needs to be more help for people to get a mortgage, rather than blaming landlords for renting out properties that no one else can currently buy or seemingly wants to buy.

[Ditsy4]

Ps I let mine off two weeks at Christmas too.

[Trethew]

I am about to retire on a state pension. I have no private pension. I downsized from a family home and released money which I used to buy and renovate a run-down council house. It is now a lovely clean and spacious family home, walking distance between a big supermarket and primary and secondary schools.

Yes I do get rent from it, but I am not rich. I resent enormously the insinuation that everybody collecting rent is ripping someone else off. Why should I put the money in the bank and collect a measly rate of interest when I can provide a safe home for a family at a fair rent?

[rogueantimatter]

I'd put a tax on both the seller and buyer of a home that is sold/bought for the purpose of using it as a buy to let and set aside the revenue for social housing.

[pilpiloni]

Landlords also take risk though. House prices can fall as well as rise.

[FinderofNeedles]

We came into money (redundancy related, if you must know) around the time DD went to uni. Property was cheap there. We bought a flat, increasing our mortgage on our own house to do so. We refurbished it, as it hadn't been updated for 20 years. It was always likely that either DD would stay in the area after graduation or that DS would go to the same city, so we saw it as a long term investment. Neither happened, and if we had put it up for sale as soon as DD graduated there is no way we would have got back what we paid + refurb costs. So we took the plunge and registered as landlords, upgraded with all the necessary alarms etc and let it out. For 4 years the rent has just about covered the mortgage, but no other associated costs. Bear in mind there is always a void period between lets, and work to be done to restore it to its previous condition. It's now up for sale. It will sell for about £10K more than we paid. Taking into account our costs as a landlord, and the buying and selling costs, we will have lost money on it. Happy, OP?

Meantime, 8 students have had somewhere to live, none of whom were looking to buy.

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

So, OP, what do you suggest? That all buy to let landlords kick out their tenants and put their houses on the market? They would probably take months to sell because not many people can get a mortgage these days, what with zero hours contracts, you know?

And where would all those tenants go? Who would house them?

[FinderofNeedles]

Actually, just redone the arithmetic - it will sell for about £8K more than we paid. That's after 8 years.

[Hockeydude]

Only read the OP but find it a bit judgemental. My relative lives in accommodation at work (needed on site 24h) so he had a BTL property. It's his only property and he'll need it as a roof over his head when his role changes. OK someone is paying his mortgage but he's not some sort of exploiter, he is just trying to survive financially.

Plus we live in a capitalist society and this is kind of how it works.

[BananaInPyjama]

Surely this argument could be used for almost everything?

Aren't Waitrose evil for charging people more than an item costs? They are making money on selling things.

Same with Amazon, Apple, Starbucks etc

[Shakey15000]

Also I find it fucking insulting.

DH and I worked our arse off to save in the beginning. We had an el cheapo wedding and slept on the floor of MIL's living room for a year to save for a deposit. DH would work away from home for weeks on end as the salary was higher. Not competitive saving, just our reality. We had an ounce of luck when we sold our place and bought well. Carried on living relatively frugally then increased the mortgage to buy another.

Our first place now houses a family of 7, 2dogs and 5cats. The rent has stayed the same for the last five years, repairs are done in a timely manner. It's an interest only mortgage so the rent doesn't chip away at that property. There's a small profit that we keep to cover repairs, yearly gas/electric checks and insurance.

Tell me what on earth is wrong with that.

[RebelandaStunner]

We have several rental properties.
Not accidental LL's as this was our plan to invest our savings so that we can retire early and help out DC.

Goblin- each time we have saved a large deposit, re-mortgaged our large otherwise mortgage free home for the rest, then overpaid like mad. Nothing dodgy! Each time we owned another outright, did the same again. So paid off several mortgages and only ever have one easily affordable one at one time. When we eventually downsize any mortgage left will be wiped out, but the plan to overpay means we never have a mortgage for long- last one paid off in 5 years.
We're not relying on inheritance or the state to keep us in our old age. We keep our properties in good order and charge a fair rent to people who are usually saving up to buy somewhere themselves, but at present can't because of moving jobs or divorce or studying or whatever.
We also let out a holiday cottage (and use it ourselves) which is full most of the year and brings money into the area it is in. Before it was someone's holiday home used a few weekends a year.