to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

[madhurjazz]

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

Back in 1990 when DH and I decided to move in together and start a family I had a flat that fell into slight negative equity, mortgage rates were going through the roof and I was struggling to keep up with the repayments.

Biggest mistake I ever made was selling that flat at a loss and letting DH stump up the cash lump sum to pay off the difference after all my costs, so we could be free of it to start again in a new house together.

It seemed like a millstone around our neck at the time. God how I wish I'd kept it and rented it out. We wouldn't have made any money month on month but we wouldn't hVe lost any either, and in time the value would shoot up and the rates would stabilise and then come right down. My mortgage on that place was about 60k at the time. That place is worth around 450k now and we'd have paid off the mortgage years ago.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

nat that's a very small corner of the market. We never bought any of our houses like that.

Out houses were very cheap, around £20,000 because they were complete shit holes that had to have thousands ploughed in to make them nice for people to move in.

These threads are crazy. People actually think that LL are some cigar smoking king pin ripping folk off

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

And not only that but I'd be taking over 1k a month in rent.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

Social cleansing and gentrification on full scale

Get a grip!

[NNChangeAgain]

If BTL was outlawed - the people who are forced to rent could buy the houses - of course they would have somewhere to live the houses would not disappear.

Is it really that simple? That all people who rent do so not because they are not in a position to buy, but because they are simply priced out of the market?

Would all current tenants really be mortgageable, if only the houses were cheaper to buy?

I suspect not, but I'm willing to be persuaded......

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

What about the people who don't work that live in BTL? How can they afford to buy a house? Should folk that don't work just be given a house - to make it fair? What if they didn't want the responsibility of the house would they then be able to rent it out to done one who did? ....

[PaulDacreCuntyMcCuntFace]

Ninasimone - yes, the majority of LL I know don't make day-to-day profit from it at all, they are in it for a long-term gain (hopefully). However they are people who are properly insured, who get repairs done promptly, who replace things when they get broken, redecorate when needed, gas safety checks up to date. There are unfortunately lots of LL out there who don't do these things - some of them through ignorance, because they don't realise their obligations - and some of them deliberately. It doesn't help when you have people like Fergus & Judith Wilson, who seem to pride themselves on coming over like a carbuncle on the arse of society with their attitude to BTL.

The new pension freedoms concerned me, because of the corresponding rise in BTL. I know a fair few people who haven't bothered with the obligations I mentioned above, because they haven't looked into any research about what it actually means to be a LL and do it properly. They've just bought a house with their pension pot and advertised for some tenants. In some cases the ability to keep raising the rent in response to market conditions is seen as a good thing, because it's giving them a great return on their investment. However I don't think it's occurred to some of them that morally, there is something questionable about a family struggling to pay the rent raises when wages aren't keeping pace - and being charged £200 for being reissued with a photocopied lease - whilst the owners are congratulating themselves on their canny investment. I think a lot of people would be shocked and very uncomfortable with the reality if they opened their eyes and chose to look more closely.

[madhurjazz]

Totally agree on every mollie123! I also would never do it as ethically it sucks.

Love that the people would have nowhere to live without btl. Because all these houses would jusylt disappear if people weren't speculating on it. Maybe they would be more affordable and there could be social and professional landlords.

But as you say many are "I'm OK Jack".

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

paul not every one is like that though so it's unfair on these threads to tarnish all LL.

[Nataleejah]

I fully agree that properties for rent are needed -- for students, for temp workers, for everyone who don't want to get tied down to one location for a variety of reasons.

But the current situation and the terrible effects it has on the communities and economy is frightening if its what some of you call 'jealousy'

[CaoNiMao]

It's capitalism, isn't it? The alternative is communism, which nobody seemed to enjoy...

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

Of course it's not that simple. Lots of people would manage to buy and to sustain their mortgage payments but some people never would and frankly, never should. That's how the sub prime disaster happened. Some people will always need rented housing and the government has known for a long time now that it's cheaper and easier to lay the responsibility for that at the feet of BTL investors and to pay a large housing benefits bill than to properly fund and manage more social housing.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

mad are you saying that houses should just be given away free? What if they cannot afford even a cheap house? Why should one person have to buy a house and another get it for free? How affordable is your affordable?

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

This old chestnut again
I live in the South East so Prpoerty Ladder/ FTB/ nothing round here for under £250k , yes heard it all.

But. I pay my mortgage I live in my house. I use my house, I get the benefit of it.

A BTL LL does not live in their house, they aren't having their mortgage paid while they are utilising it. They are no guarantees that the property will be occupied or even that the tenants will pay, leave when asked, leave the house in good condition.

And when a house goes up for sale in poor condition, it is more likely to stay empty . At least if its bought, renovated and rented (though more likely bought and sold) it improves things.

[ErniesGhostlyGoldTops]

Inequality applies to everything in life though doesn't it? One person can afford Waitrose best steak, some can afford My Mums Happy Shopper MInce. Why should the housing market be any different? If it wasn't for a lot of BTL's a lot of people wouldn't have a roof over their heads surely? It's a free market economy with all the pros and cons of same.

[Poptart27]

Most ridiculous socialist thread ever. I'll leave it at that.

[londonrach]

Of course. You cant stay for free. Its a business. I say that as someone who rented for 12 years and now escaped the rent trap. I know loads of others still stuck in this trap. I do think its an nasty way of making money but its not illegal. If i ever became prime minister (as if) i would have a rent cap applied and tax people on more than one house that cant be passed onto tenants. (Awaits flaming from mntters....but please walk in those who rented shoes before judging)

[madhurjazz]

Buy to let, for us, is helping our children get on housing ladder and out of dire rented flats.

We've borrowed against our main house to get deposits, took out a 'car' loan etc.

Pyramid schemes always end well.

I wonder why they ended up in dire flats? Solution is part of the problem?

[Inthebathprobably]

If there weren't landlords around I would be homeless as I'll never be able to get a deposit for a house (single parent)

So I'm very grateful I have an excellent landlord, who charges a fair rent and my house is my home for 7 years so far.

[SanityClause]

Well, the government doesn't recognise the importance of social housing, and therefore doesn't make provision of it a priority.

But its easier to blame private landlords for this government policy, just as it's easier to blame immigration for the lack of funding to the NHS, and was easier to blame benefits claimants for the banking crisis.

In any case, since the last budget, returns are much reduced, as the interest allowed to be claimed against tax has been reduced. So, there's less scope for ordinary buy-to-letters (like teachers and nurses) to use property as an investment, and most private landlords will start to be large companies with capital to invest.

Yay! Rich people getting richer!

[applesandpears33]

I'd love to be able to afford a buy to let property, not because I want to take advantage of people but because house values are rising so quickly I don't think my DC will be able to afford to live in this area in the future. If I could, I'd love to buy a property, rent it out now and have it available for them in ten years time.

[madhurjazz]

Inequality applies to everything in life though doesn't it?

Housing is an essential, waitrose dutchy organic pineapple isn't. Home ownership is falling.

What are all these people renting their whole life a d no decent pensions going to do when they retire? Housing benefit bill will either be huge or non existent.

[BombadierFritz]

guess they could just invest it in shares instead? you know, those companies that buy or make stuff cheap, sell it for more money, keep the difference and just live off their unearned income. bastards. I hate shops.

[SvalbardianPenguin]

Hence the shortage of social housing, state pays housing benefits so the "buy to let" owners can pay off the banks.

Many BTL owners don't accept tenants on benefits, or least not the ones that I know. Most of their tenants are immigrant workers who are fantastic tenants, stay for years and look after the houses brilliantly. In return they get a landlord who does all repairs promptly and doesn't interfere.

[WamBamThankYouMaam]

I think it's no coincidence that the majority who are saying they would never ever BTL are those who can't afford to buy in the first place.

I own several properties. Nobody is paying my mortgage because I own them outright. They're more secure than a pension for me. And quite frankly, no everybody shouldn't be able to own their own home. If you can't afford to pay rent, for example, without assistance then you can afford to buy.