To be shocked, angry and upset by this behaviour

[StillSmallVoice]

DCs' granny has died. She was a regular Church of England churchgoer. Ex SIL has organised the funeral in a crematorium, with the Service to be taken by her daughter, who is not ordained or licensed to conduct Anglican funerals, so Granny isn't having a C of E funeral at all.

ExH and my DCs (who are young adults) weren't consulted on any of this, and have now been excluded from the funeral because they objected.

DD, who has some mental health issues anyway is absolutely devastated. She has withdrawn into herself and is unable to function, as far as I can see. I'm trying to support her, but at the moment there isn't much I can do except be there for her.

AIBU to be appalled at this behaviour from a couple of so-called 'Christians'?

[confuugled1]

Glad to hear that a priest has been booked and that your dd can go to the funeral - I hope she'll get lots of comfort from going (at least it should be more than being banned from going by her aunt!).

And glad to hear that you have found your Happy Ever After - long may it continue for all of you!

[StillSmallVoice]

Thanks, Shipwrecked. I married a very lovely new man five years ago. He comes from another country, but his family have embraced me and the DCs and welcomed them as part of the family. There are big issues with my kids and the baggage left behind, and problematic relations with their Dad sometimes, but I'm hopeful that in the end, all will be well.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Ah, that's so good to hear.

I hope this is the last of the difficulties, that your dd gets the time she needs to grieve and you can move on and away from this and SIL.

[StillSmallVoice]

Update: ex SIL has backed down and booked a priest, so they will be going to the funeral. DD is much happier because it is what her Granny would have wanted.

I must say hat I was surprised that she could act unilaterally like that, but they were a pretty dysfunctional family, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with them any more.

But all's well that ends well, and thanks to all of you for your thoughtful comments

[contrary13]

confuugled - I may well be wrong, but I think it depends on who the individual nominates as their next of kin. So, if the OP's ex-SIL was down on the hospital notes as her ex-MIL's next of kin, it'll be her who legally gets to do all the funeral organising. Perhaps the ex-SIL lived closer than the OP's ex-husband to their mother?

[confuugled1]

This is just making me wonder if somebody has two children, as seems to be the case here, who decides who is next of kin? How come it's SIL rather than her brother?

I'd also be asking to see the will (or getting ex to) to make sure that there are no funeral requests in there. And I'd be talking to the vicar too, to see if the granny had made any arrangements with him or discussed it with him, and see what he suggests. Partly practical - because if your ex MIL was religious, there's a good chance she might have said something to him/her, or might know if there's something that could be done so that there was something of your ex mil in there... He may well want to go himself if she was a longstanding loyal parishioner, even if the service isn't going to be his flavour. But also because, even if your dd is an atheist, the vicar might be able to say something to her that can help, as he's a lot more used to dealing with these sorts of situations than most of us.

The other person it might be worth talking to is the vicar/??? of the church that ex SIL belongs to - just in an 'advisory' capacity - and maybe you doing it on behalf of your dd so that there isn't any backfire on your dd or ex as a result of doing so. But maybe if she believes strongly in her church there might be somebody there that would be able to talk to her about how it might be easier for her to be a part of the congregation rather than leading the service, they might be able to appeal to her 'christian' values as they would be the same... And although it wouldn't be exactly the same it would at least be a christian burial rather than a humanist one - and one would hope the vicar might then invite the other vicar along to at least do a prayer too.

[StillSmallVoice]

Weallhave wings - DD is athiest but loved her Granny dearly. Granny was religious (C of E) and ex SIL goes to an independent bigoted evangelical church.

Stopfuckingshouting - SIL was always a cunt.

I think the idea of a memorial will be the best way forward for them.

Scary teacher - I think that is what I find so awful about the situation. She was an incense swinging anglo-catholic, and this is absolutely not what she would want.

(It is a really good hymn, isn't it. I found it very calming at a very difficult time in my life.)

Frumpet - money isn't a problem.

It's none of my business really. None of the family have spoken to me since the day I left the abusive ExH. But when my DD is so distraut it think it becomes my business.

Anyway - I went round to her house and hauled her out of bed and took her to lunch. She's feeling a bit better now. Her brother is also being an absolute star.

[Mybugslife]

unfortunately, the client ie. the person signing to say the funeral can go ahead, signing the cremation paperwork and sorting the account is the person who funeral directors will take their directions from, this doesn't necessarily have to be the next of kin.
If she has said to her FD that ExH and DCs are not allowed to enter the crematorium chapel, he/she will not allow them too.

Is it worth you ExH chatting to his sister to attend anyway and then organising a memorial service in the church at a later date?

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

Would the vicar at her regular church do a memorial service for her? Like a funeral but without the coffin there, so that the prayers that match her belief will be said. I'm sure that she must have had plenty of friends in the church, as she was a regular, and the local community who would wish to attend that and I think it would be a comfort for your DD to have the service that she knows her GM would have wanted.

[contrary13]

*terms... I can spell, honestly!

[contrary13]

I didn't attend my Gran's funeral, partly because I knew her feelings concerning small children at them (and my daughter was 5 at the time), and partly because my father's brother's and one of their sons decided to threaten my safety if I showed up (because they knew damned well I wouldn't stand for them lying about how close they were to her, when I knew what had happened/been happening for the previous two years because of them, and that I won't stand for rewriting history!). So, effectively, we (and all of her friends... I think it was literally just four of my cousins, her three sons and the only wife who remained between the three of them, who were there... which is tremendously sad!) were barred from attending. It's more than possible to do so in a crematorium's chapel of rest.

Instead, my daughter and I had a quiet day where we lit a candle and burned letters which we'd written to her in its flame. My grandmother wasn't religious in the slightest, but it helped my daughter come to turns with her grief. Perhaps, OP, you/your ex-H and your daughter could do something similar to honour her granny?

[frumpet]

Is it possible that the funeral has been arranged to keep within a limited budget ? perhaps the Grandmother hadn't made any arrangements to cover the cost of a funeral and exSIL is trying her best with limited means ?

Not sure how much it costs to hold a funeral or service in Church or to have a vicar deliver a service at a crematorium , I presume it would cost something .

Did the Grandmother ever discuss her wishes with any of you regarding funerals ?

[shillwheeler]

Yes, I think it would be the (immediate) next of kin and person organising the funeral who gets to decide the format. And from memory their choice can even trump the expressed wishes of the deceased.

Quite what is moral in the circumstances is a different issue.

I think the suggestion that your DD makes her own memorial/commemoration is a good one, although I can see how hurtful the current crematorium arrangements would be in the circumstances.

Funerals are really about the living, and their relationship to the deceased. I do hope your DD can find some way of commemorating her grandmother, and take comfort in knowing that she is honouring her memory. That is the important thing. I like the idea of saying a paryer at the same time, possibly with a minister. Would another option be a commemorative service later? Or something else to commemorate her life (planting a tree and a blessing).

So sad that your DD is feeling excluded at this time. Funerals can bring out the best and worst in people.

[Lorelei76]

so the lady's daughter has organised for a crematorium with no church involvement - and when the lady's son objected, he and his children were barred?

I feel as if there must be more here - to bar someone because they object to the funeral...?

were any funeral instructions left? I presume the daughter and son aren't close otherwise this could not have happened - when it comes to it, sis and I will be sorting this sort of thing together.

[ohtheholidays]

So it's your ex husbands Grandmother that has died?If so then why the hell is the ex sil getting to say what happens?Or do you mean his sister as in your ex SIL?

Are any of his Grandmothers children still alive or her Husband?If they are surely they should be arranging the funeral?

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

what a cunt your SIL is, really nasty

and she cannot ban you

You cannot even try and reason with someone as nasty as this TBH


agree you find a kind vicar and have them have a chat with your DD and say some prayers with her

so sorry op

[scaryteacher]

YANBU to judge their funeral choices at all. My Mum has made it very clear to me that she wants a requiem mass for her funeral, then she is to be cremated. The mass will obviously be in the church of which she is a stalwart member. I would not go against her wishes, and I am dismayed on your behalf that your ex SIL has made this choice, which on the face of it will not be in line with the wishes of the deceased.

Love your NN by the way - had that hymn at our wedding!

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Such a shame that family arguments can bar people from being able to pay their last respects (although I can see that it must be a common thing for the directors to deal with)

[StillDrSethHazlittMD]

Shipwrecked As far as the funeral directors (and crematorium) are concerned, they take their instructions from whoever is organising the funeral and paying them - which in this case, one assumes, is the ExSIL (who will have had to have the death certificate etc to do so).

[ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe]

Do you know what sort of service Granny wanted?

Maybe they are acting according to her wishes?

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

Sorry - another thought - we had a very distressed family member years back unable to attend a C of E funeral in another part of the country, and one of the local vicars when we explained suggested that they visited her at the time of the funeral and did a kind of 1:1 read through of the service with her. We jumped at the offer. Would your dd benefit from that?

[x2boys]

My husband couldnt go to his sisters funeral last yr because of an argument and then a lot of lies told about him it was awful but we went up to the crematorium the day after so he could say his goodbyes i hope you sort something out as its something you cant ever get back.

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

Does this lady's will support this? It would seem likely she would have left instructions for a C of E funeral? Who are the executors?

[WeAllHaveWings]

Sorry for your loss

It is for the immediate family (next of kin) to decide on the funeral service; maybe they feel strongly they want a humanitarian service (which this sounds like) so YABU to judge their choices in the funeral service they want for their mum. Your DH has a right to discuss with his sis but it wont be the first time siblings have disagreed on what each wants for funeral arrangements and your dc should keep out of it.

Your dd can go to the crematorium service, but she is best to ask her dad to let his sister know she will be attending and that she will behave appropriately on the day to take the stress off everyone.

If you dd is strongly religious herself she should go and discuss the situation with her or her grandmothers church and they will be able to assist her with her beliefs (perhaps a memorial service as suggested above).