Do you know anyone middle class?

[angelos02]

I don't. But my definition of middle class is those that go to work but don't need to.

[YogaPants]

I know a handful of people who got your definition OP; however, they are a rather homogenous group that share the following characteristics.
A) aged between 65 and 70 and entitled to pensions
B) are university professors or if not derive a sense of personal value and indentity through their work
C) like to think of themselves as younger than they are

I think any definition of class needs to be tweaked such that age doesn't play a larger part on determine what class you aren't . I.e. These people I am describing were not working class at age 64 and then on their 65 birthday when they chose to delay retirement because they didn't feel ready rather than they needed the money suddenly switched classes to being middle class.

[AyeAmarok]

Yes spice, I think often society, and on here especially, usually think it is like the TV shows. Not the difficult criminal/mental health/PI work that can be pretty brutal, really intense and isn't well rewarded.

Before I put my foot in it again (!), I'm not saying corporate law isn't hard! It is, and very long hours but at least they pay you well in exchange for expecting you to hand over your whole life to the firm.

[WhisperingLoudly]

ayeamok getting a law degree does not equal being a lawyer

[BluePancakes]

I'm a SAHM who works part time in the evenings, but I don't need to, because my DH works FT and pays all the bills.
Does that mean I'm middle class, and he's working class?

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

OP your initial definition is of a person of "independent means" not of somebody middle class.

It isn't a definition of class at all, but of having a non work related income stream sufficient to live on - its an economic group (a tiny one unless you include pensioners or mean to include people who are in a couple and could make ends meet as a couple of family on one income but both work so as to do more than just make ends meet or for other reasons ...)

[WhisperingLoudly]

I'm a lawyer - it's quite glamorous if you like spending half your life on a plane which is just as well because I only qualified so I could be like ally mcbeal

actually it was LA law - showing my age

[BillSykesDog]

I know loads of people who are middle class but in serious denial about it, including my parents.

Apparently supporting Jeremey Corbyn cancels out your Mercedes and £1 million pound house and the fact you sent your children to selective or private school and makes you as working class as a miner in a flat cap who's just shoved a ferret down his pants.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

EastMids :o

"Do you know anyone from Albania?

I don't. But my definition of Albania is a magical submarine that flies through the sky."

[AyeAmarok]

That's not quite what your earlier post said, however - you implied that law and education now attracted graduates of a lower calibre and that other professions had supplanted them.

But I do think this is true a bit. Back 30 years ago when 15% of people went to university, a lot of them would have done law, medicine, teaching.

Now, more people go, and the pool of top talent is spread more thinly over other degrees and then professions, eg engineering, science, accountancy, economics etc.

So there is more of a mix of people in what used to be a very typically middle class job. And with so many more universities offering these courses, the entrance grades are lower and so the calibre isn't as high overall as it used to be (doesn't apply to medicine). Of course there are still lots of very good people doing law and teaching.

I don't see why that's such a controversial view! I thought everyone thought that with the whole "degrees mean nothing these days" mantra that's often trotted out on here.

[AyeAmarok]

Really whispering, I had no idea...

Where did I say it did?

[metimeisforwimps]

By your definition I think some people where I work would fit. Quite posh women who are very clever and have worked for the sake of having a career rather than to support themselves. Also men who probably have enough money that they don't theoretically need to work any more.
I don't think I know anyone like that under 60 though.

[Chickoletta]

I am middle class and so are most of my friends.

I have a very good friend who is in the aristocracy - she's Lady X, her DH is Lord X and sits in the House of Lords and they own a huge estate. They work harder than any other family I know.

Your definition is nuts.

[Kenduskeag]

What on earth is a person who works but doesn't need to? Someone with a big fat inheritance?

[lljkk]

I am not English so I don't have to pretend to follow any rules... So testy about class definitions you lot are. The whole tribal identity thing about class is :(.

those that go to work but don't need to.

My dad. He is 73. Loves his job. :)
I know couples where both work but one could stay at home if they wanted.

[bonnie1981]

I would actually like to know what classifies as middle class, working class etc now as its all so muddled and everyone has different interpretations.

I would classify myself as lower middle class, but others would certainly see me as working class.

[blueskyinmarch]

I was working class and my parents are definitely working class.

DH is, and always has been middle class. Professional parent with a bit of money etc.

I have a degree (as does DH) and my DH has a well paid job. DD’s went to private school and until recently i worked but didn’t need to. So by that definition i was middle class.

BUT two months ago i gave up work and now i am technically unemployed. Does that mean i am working class again? I live in the country, I have a labrador and a 4X4, and Hunters and a waxed jacket. I MUST be middle class. I don’t want to be working class again .

[steff13]

Here in the US, it's based solely on income. Based on our income, we're upper middle class here.

[AyeAmarok]

4X4, and Hunters and a waxed jacket

Someone will be along in a minute telling you that you can't be MC and own those. You're obviously 'trying too hard to be MC' as nobody with any class would wear Hunters/have a 4X4/have a flat screen TV/have a microwave/get shellac nails[insert any other normal thing that people have/do].

That's how ridiculous the whole thing gets. People make their own rules about class up to keep 'other people' out of their little group, lest you threaten their insecure place in that group.

[CodewordRochambeau]

Aye I don't think it's quite as straightforward as that. 30/40 years ago, many teachers would have trained at teacher training college, with lower entry requirements than universities. Now, very very few teachers do a BEd with QTS and the vast majority of teachers have a postgraduate qualification.

It goes in waves, however. I trained with teach first, who specifically target Oxbridge and other prestigious universities for their recruitment. It was noticeable during the recession that teaching became a very attractive career for highly-qualified graduates, and around 2009-2012 we would regularly get 40+ applicants for each vacancy and we could afford to cherry-pick. More recently, the effects of various cuts have bitten and there is a full-on teacher recruitment crisis.

I think as a wider point, however, there hasn't so much been a devaluing of degrees as an unspoken two-tier system.

[ilovechocolate07]

David Cameron is definitely upper class. I'm from working class as is DH. I have a degree and right now I don't need to work as he can cover the bills etc and we have an ok disposable income so I guess I might seem middle but in my heart I'm working class.

[acrustlessquiche]

Yes, my housemates. They are students but live off things like quinoa and almond flour and have never ordered a takeaway in their lives.

[fastdaytears]

Whaaaat takeaways aren't middle class now?

[blueskyinmarch]

AyeAmarok I do indeed have a flat screen TV (several in fact), a microwave and have had gel nails out on (but i wasn’t really impressed). Obvs not MC class then. My working class roots are obviously showing. .

[BonnieF]

Steff13,

In the UK it's definitely not all about money. Family background, education (where you were educated is as important as your level of education) and occupation are all at least as important as how rich you are.

For example, a successful builder who now earns £100k+, lives in a nice house and drives a Mercedes Benz but left his local state school at 16 with few academic qualifications and has little interest in the arts or culture would be considered working class.

On the other hand, a university lecturer who was educated at private school and Oxbridge, lives in a modest house, rides a bicycle, earns £40k and is an opera fan would definitely be considered middle class.

[MitzyLeFrouf]

Lebanese takeaway - middle class
Japanese takeaway - nouveau riche
All other take away - plebeian (caveat: fish and chips takeaway can be middle class but only if taken away in Cornwall)