Do you know anyone middle class?

[angelos02]

I don't. But my definition of middle class is those that go to work but don't need to.

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

What a strange post.

Do you know anyone who falls into this category? Trick question! Do you know anyone who falls into this category but you are only allowed to use the definition of the category which I have just this second made up based on no real knowledge, evidence or understanding at all?

[SummerJoy2]

You would never be considered middle class if you come from a working class family.

[AyeAmarok]

I find the jobs rule interesting; that being a doctor, lawyer or teacher makes you middle class.

Doctor - fair enough.

Lawyer? Loads of people do law degrees these days from all walks of life. Many never make it into a training contract. Those who do, half of them really struggle for money, especially with all the cuts to legal aid etc. Not all law jobs are glamorous corporate city jobs; some of it is a really hard slog in a pretty grim world.

Teachers - an even wider background of people do teaching these days, and of the people I went to university with, often it's the ones who didn't manage to get a 2:1 in their undergraduate degree and so couldn't get a graduate job who went back and did teaching. It's now also a pretty back-breaking, stressful and long hours job, and the pay isn't great until you've worked your way up.

I think accountancy, engineering, scientists are more the typical "teachers and lawyers" of 30+ years ago.

[Natsku]

Agree with everyone, that ain't the definition of middle-class. My parents are middle-class (dad is a clergyman), I'm not though, I'm more under-class OH is working class but of the variety that could be quite well-off (he's an electrician - only takes a minimal income though)

[witsender]

Your definition is illogical, but all my friends and family are solid MC, as am I.

[Natsku]

I'd consider teachers middle-class where I live as they're well educated (masters at least) and in a highly respected profession even if their incomes aren't much higher than the average.

[HostaFireandIce]

of the people I went to university with, often it's the ones who didn't manage to get a 2:1 in their undergraduate degree and so couldn't get a graduate job who went back and did teaching

[ephemeralfairy]

Hmm. I would say that pretty much everyone I know is middle class, with the exception of DP's family who are 'as working class as they come'. (his definition)

I think there is very wide 'middle class' demographic, much wider than working or upper class. For example, I grew up in the left-wing liberal Green-voting vegetarian enclaves of Brighton. All my friend's parents were leftover hippies who had been to university and were teachers/social workers/librarians/psychotherapists etc etc. Many (including my mum) came from working class backgrounds but now consider themselves middle class, even though none are particularly rich.

On the other hand my best friend from uni grew up in a village in the Home Counties: Tory-voting parents, 'professional' jobs, well-off, very conservative in lifestyle and outlook as well as politics. She says they describe themselves as 'staunchly middle class'.

I find it all very interesting, these 'tribes'.

[Heyheyheygoodbye]

What's your definition of upper class, OP?

[ephemeralfairy]

Have just read further posts: DP is a teacher but still describes himself as working class. He has taught in some very deprived areas (similar to where he grew up) and he reckons his upbringing has helped him to be a better teacher and connect better with kids who are considered 'difficult' or from 'chaotic backgrounds'.

[AyeAmarok]

Horsta That's the case, for me.

Having said that, I don't know anyone who went to university to do teaching in the first place as their degree. Only people who did other traditional subjects as their first degree and then went back to do teaching. So maybe that makes a difference.

The teaching department was on a different campus AFAIK, so we didn't mix.

[Engl1shRose]

I know my place

[Birdsgottafly]

I only think of living in certain areas and probably being at least the third generation to have a 'Profession'.

So you've more than likely inherited wealth, which has made life easy enough to afford out of school hobbies that are musical, educational etc and expensive, so for me, its being able to indulge in stuff that a close majority wouldn't be able to.

Horse-riding was at one point part of life, then it became exclusive, now depending on where you live, its possible to budget for it.

The markers have changed and will continue to.

The problem is that many people who are doing slightly better than those that they come into contact with/went to school with, or live in an area that has slightly higher property values, think that they are 'proper' middle class and the disdain shown by Politicians/Daily Mail etc, wouldn't be directed at them, but then realise that they are wrong when its too late.

By my definition, I know quite a few people that are MC, my DD's, DP is one. It's tough when you can't give your children what the other side of the family can. They have good propertys and disposable income/savings/shares.

I know loads that think they are, whereas they are just doing well.

[DownWithThisSortaThing]

Summerjoy - so if you are from a working class family, you will always be working class, and your children will be working class too because you are, and their children will and their children and so on? Even though your kids will have completely different upbringings / education and will possibly be a lot better off than their grandparents?
This is where I stop understanding class and why its even relevant anymore. It seemed a big deal to my grandparents generation, but these days most people don't even know what their class is supposed to be.

[ephemeralfairy]

I think accountancy, engineering, scientists are more the typical "teachers and lawyers" of 30+ years ago.

Absolutely! If one is basing judgement on income, career prospects etc then STEM graduates are in a far better position than any teacher!

[CodewordRochambeau]

Aye I went to Oxford. DH went to Cambridge. We are both teachers. It varies massively throughout the country but certainly in London it is quite common to find teachers with good degrees from very prestigious universities choosing to teach.

[SoleBizzz]

Ugh God no. No personalities.

[backinthebox]

Damn middle class people - taking up jobs they don't need to do!

As for the whole "....didn't manage a 2.1 in their undergraduate degree..." thing - I hang my head in shame. I got a 2.2, and I had to go and get a job that doesn't need a degree at all and now I'll never rise above my northern working class skilled manual worker roots! I didn't go into teaching though. No, I fly 350 tonne aeroplanes for a living. I don't think I am middle class - I need a job to pay the bills.

[roarfeckingroar]

I'm not sure if I know anyone who isn't middle class, aside a few minor baronets etc.

[AyeAmarok]

Very good code. My point was more that the professions that are "valued" in today's world are very different to 30-40 years ago.

Of course teaching is still a great career. But I would say that accountancy, engineering (as in proper Chartered engineering, not technicians), scientists, architecture etc are also very typically middle class profession these days like teaching and law was then, and sometimes moreso. There are some pretty dire areas of law to work in, long hours, shit pay, low prospects. People forget how hard some law careers are.

[SpiceLinerandHoneyLove]

DH and I are both lawyers and it isn't glamarous. I wish it was like Ally McBeal/House of Cards but it's more like a wet Wednesday afternoon re-run of The Bill most days.

[AyeAmarok]

Pilot I would also put in that group.

[CodewordRochambeau]

Aye as the daughter of a chartered engineer I couldn't agree more. That's not quite what your earlier post said, however - you implied that law and education now attracted graduates of a lower calibre and that other professions had supplanted them. I agree entirely with your other examples but they aren't mutually exclusive.

If you want a really exhaustive list, you can always consult the accepted occupations to countersign a passport