To think this mother is right. Holiday in term time.

[derxa]

Normally I think children should not be taken out of school for holidays but this mother may have a point.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3559089/Mother-four-fined-60-truancy-taking-youngest-daughter-term-time-holiday-Government-free-meant-children-s-Easter-breaks-different-times.html

Good sad face as well

[Permanentlyexhausted]

It always makes me laugh when people tell me that I am not "entitled" to a holiday and it isn't a "right". I am and it is and sam for my kids.

Ooh - do point me in the direction of the law which enshrines your legal entitlements and rights to a holiday.

[cleaty]

Whathavelost - Are you fine with parents taking children out term time, if they can not get annual leave during the school holidays?

[LowDudgeon]

"Miss Smith's fine comes just six months after determined father Jon Platt, 45, had his punishment overturned in court after he refused to pay the £120 fine for taking his daughter, seven, to Disney World in term time.
"But magistrates ruled that because Mr Platt's seven-year-old daughter was only away from school for eight days, she was still attending 'regularly' and he had not broken the law."

If I read the dates right, this child only missed 7 days of school (Tue 29 - Fri 1 plus Mon 4 - Wed 6) so she should be appeal to appeal successfully too

I'm honestly shocked at how self-righteous so many people are about this now. Before the Govt changed the rules it was perfectly ok to take children out for a few days if they had otherwise good attendance & the head gave permission. Heads don't seem to be allowed to give permission any more - it's just about ticking boxes on attendance records?

My kids had several holidays either side of May half-term, & in every case permission was granted happily - on one occasion it was when a child was in Y9 but had finished his SATs. It did not harm his education in any way.

You've all been brainwashed!

[HelloIAmBaymax]

Katnisnevergreen As a teacher you cannot take time off during term time. Any children you have are also restricted to holidays during school holidays. This gives you 13 weeks of possible holiday time together.

Where DH works, the staff are not allowed to take any time off during school holiday times. This gives us 0 weeks of possible holiday time together.

I shall continue to book holidays for our family, during term time, with little regard for how infuriating any teachers find it.

[thesockgap]

YouMakeMyDreams "I'll bet most of the people saying a holiday isn't a right do manage a family holiday of some sort most years and don't struggle with things like allocated annual leave. "
Speaking for myself and my family, it's a big fat NO on both counts.
We had a week in Wales 2 years ago, but nothing last year and nothing this year. Partly due to financial constraints, but mostly due to the second point you make: my husband's annual leave is rostered / allocated, not chosen. He gets a different "block" each year and doesn't get to choose it, so unless his block falls during school holidays, we don't go away. My 3 sons are between years 4 and 11 - when they were all primary school age, we did occasionally take them out of school for a week but I would never dream of it now they are (mostly) secondary aged. We resign ourselves to not having a holiday in those years when his leave falls during term time, and my kids seem to have survived the trauma!... so I agree with those who say a holiday is a pleasure, a luxury but not a right or a necessity.

[NickiFury]

I decided it permanently for MY life and MY family.

[cleaty]

I think it is important that families spend time together.

[ChemistryHunt]

LowDudgeon

My children were at school before these fines came into place and are in school now they are in place. I have experienced both.

I didn't take my children out of school for holidays before fines and I still don't now. I haven't been brainwashed.

This is my and my DHs decision and it is right for our family.

I personally believe that parents have to decide if they wish to take holidays in term time or not. However if you choose then you have to pay a fine, which is in place through a law.

If you do something which you knows carry a fine, you cannot complain about getting fined.

If you drive 30mph in a 20mph zone you will have to pay the fine (if given one). It doesn't matter if you think the road should be a 20 or not.

[Whathaveilost]

Whathavelost - Are you fine with parents taking children out term time, if they can not get annual leave during the school holidays
I'm not fine with many things. However in this scenario the woman would have known she was facing a fine. As she carried on with the holiday she should have ( IMO) treat it a holiday cost.
If you read some of my other posts I have said I was in the same position as this woman a few years ago and after checking on the councils website for school dates, booking a ski holiday and then to find the secondary school had its half term beginning as everyone else in the authority was finishing.

I have stated that I can only take two weeks annual leave during school holidays ( I work in a children's services for a County Council, although I do get generous holiday allowance. Everybody wants their two weeks in the school holidays as well so we have to take turns each year. Even then I wouldn't take the kids out of school but DH has taken them away by himself.

I think it would be unusual if both parents can't take any time off in the school holiday throughout the whole 12 months. If that was the case surely a special request would be put in, if not then just pay the fine.

[dolkapots]

Haven't read the story but have seen this on FB and get the gist. I would argue with those who say that no one "needs" a holiday; there are lots of people who have been abused, suffered trauma or have complex needs where a break from their everyday life makes a big difference. It could be a holiday 50 miles away, doesn't have to be abroad etc.

I took my DC out of school for 2 days after the Easter holidays. I didn't take the decision lightly, but weighed up the pros/cons and asked the children if they were OK with it. I wrote to the schools explaining their absence and that I had informed them that they would have to be proactive in catching up missed work.

For various reasons we can't do a summer holiday and the choice between mine missing school for a few days and not going away was an easy contest.

[Whathaveilost]

I think it is important that families spend time together.
Nobody is saying otherwise.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

I'm taking my kids to Ibiza next week. Ibiza is a RIGHT goddammit.

[LowDudgeon]

ChemistryHunt - I don't think term-time holiday fines & speeding fines are comparable.

some laws are just wrong.

[cleaty]

HT should be able to grant time off. So parents who can not take school holidays, can take the family away.

[Whathaveilost]

Haven't read the story but have seen this on FB and get the gist. I would argue with those who say that no one "needs" a holiday; there are lots of people who have been abused, suffered trauma or have complex needs where a break from their everyday life makes a big difference. It could be a holiday 50 miles away, doesn't have to be abroad etc.
I agree with although it may not look like it in some posts. Of course holidays are important, time with loved ones is good for mental wellbeing , even if it is to a caravan park a few miles away. I don't think any one would dispute that.

Whether anyone needs a holiday in Ibiza during term time and then moan about a fine they knew they could expect to a national newspaper is a different matter though!

[margewiththebluehair]

I think there needs to be a balance and be sensible.

When I lived in Australia, we planned to come back for the Jubilee and visit Europe. We didn't know at that point we would ever return to live in UK.

Whilst there was a one week term break, we took a further three weeks off from school. We had the blessing of the school as it was a once off opportunity.

Since DS was far far far ahead all the children in english and maths, there was nothing he was going to miss. If anything it gave the teacher a breather from constantly finding extra work. He was told to keep a diary - and he did - every day he wrote his diary and every day he worked out the cost of everything in Australian dollar. He probably learned far more on his holiday than in school.

It didn't do him any harm and he didn't mess anything crucial. But then, he gets a lot of support at home and we are very vigilant about his education.

I guess if parents aren't vigilant about education - then yes it is silly to take time off school to save a money or for a more convenient time. But if a parent is on top of it, then surely it is up to the parent.

[ChemistryHunt]

LowDudgeon

In your opinion it is wrong, that doesn't make it fact. In my opinion it is not wrong.

If you don't like that analogy how about a littering fine. Same situation, some people think they shouldn't be given, but they are an official fine and have to be paid.

There was never an entitlement to two weeks off school, however many people thought it was.

It reaches a point where so many students are taking a week or two off the level of disruption for the whole class (because of teachers needing to catch people up) becomes too much.

People don't listen unless it hits them in the pocket, hence the fine.

[margewiththebluehair]

Of course, I do think the lady should have just paid the fine.

[jellyfrizz]

If you don't like that analogy how about a littering fine. Same situation, some people think they shouldn't be given, but they are an official fine and have to be paid.

But littering and speeding affect other people. Taking your child out of school doesn't.

[Permanentlyexhausted]

I decided it permanently for MY life and MY family.

Yeah. That's a choice. Not an entitlement or a right.

[ChemistryHunt]

But littering and speeding affect other people. Taking your child out of school doesn't

Apart from the teachers and other children in the class due to lost time as a result of having to help students catch up? Even if additional work is not given then the teachers will need to go over work the child has missed but needs to know to do the next bit.

We obviously have very different views when it comes to taking children out of school and what the consequence of this should be. That's fine, it's good and healthy in society.

However the fundamental fact is that if you do something you know will lead to a fine, you will have to pay the fine. Regardless of if you agree with the fine or not.

[DinosaursRoar]

She didn't "need" to take one child out of school, she "wanted" to take one child out as she (and her DH, who escapes mention) wanted to go away at Easter rather than the summer holidays. That choice cost her an extra £60.

[slug]

Ahh... I see the "You're just jealous" line has been trotted out. IMHO this line is only used when there is no coherent argument available. See also the response to any woman who objects to sexual harassment etc.

[NickiFury]

But I feel it is permanently. For YOU it's a choice because that's how YOU choose to think about it and that's the importance YOU attach to holidays. For me and my family I consider it a right to have the freedom and ability to take my family away on holiday. You can't make people think the same as you you know.

[DinosaursRoar]

NickiFury - and you have a right to take your DCs away whenever you can afford it and want to (that's rather different to saying you have a 'right to a holiday'). You also have a right to educate your DC any way you please, be that in private school, state school or home school, you only have a duty to ensure they are getting an education, you get to pick how you educate them and for all children, there is a right to a state place if you can't afford or don't want to arrange their education yourself.

However if you do pick to use the free state place to educate your child, there are conditions attached to that, including that you agree when you take the place that unless your child is ill, you will send them to school. I certainly had to sign something to that effect when I accepted the place for my eldest DC at school. If you don't keep to that agreement, there's now a fine system in place.

If you want the flexibility to go away whenever you like with no state issued financial penalties to do so, you need to arrange a non-state education for your DCs.