To think prince Charles isn't that bad

[Julia2016]

The princes trust does good work. Yes he didn't treat Diana well but she also manipulated the media and they were an odd match from the start.

Take the other night, why did Charles not meet Obama? Or was this William picking a job he liked doing?? It looks to me like Charles is being sidelined, perhaps there are plans to bypass him in the line of succession. Or maybe the media are not bothered about him.

I kinda like him.. 😌

[southeastastra]

is it all about jimmy saville?

[HarlotBronte]

You said reputation initially falling, which is not the same as drawing tourism to the country. Plenty of people think the royals are an embarrassment.

And on the tourism point specifically, which respected economists have considered whether the continued existence of the Royals, as opposed to the trappings of a long gone royal family such as the Palace of Versailles, encourage tourism? People certainly come to the UK for heritagey stuff, but as anyone who's ever lived in Oxford or Stratford-upon-Avon will tell you, this doesn't have to involve royalty.

[Falling270]

This is the first article that came up when I googled about revenue being generated for the country by the royal family. (Admittedly it's six years old.)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/7850335/The-Royal-family-is-a-bargain-for-Britain.html

I know it seems awful seeing people living in palaces when people in this country are struggling, but economic reports do suggest the net gain for the country is worth the outlay.

[BillSykesDog]

I'm actually in favour of the monarchy but I still think Charles is a spoilt dingbat.

The Queen seems to have a real sense of the privilege that she has alongside the perils of her position and seems to appreciate it and also has a sense that it's a give and take situation where the privilege is a bit of a pay off for the inconvenience and downside of being Royal.

Charles, and it's starting to seem like William too, seem to live lives of extraordinary privilege yet seem to have little appreciation of that and an Eeyorish self-pitying outlook on life.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

There are a lot of visitors to Versailles too.

[Ricardian]

Any alternative is better than having an unelected head of state whose only qualification was to be born

I'm not at all sure that's true. Heads of State with very limited executive power are rare; Germany and Italy have that, but they have a particular constitutional history (hands up everyone who would recognise Joachim Gauck or Sergio Mattarella, or would even know who the Germany and Italian heads of state are without looking it up, as I just did). Neither is directly elected, either, and the mechanism for their election is opaque in the extreme; I think secret ballots by MPs or equivalent are a shockingly bad way to elect people.

If we ended up with an elected head of state on the American or French model, by contrast, we would be making a much larger change to our constitution, and would have to make some substantial other changes to balance it out. The US have a substantially more powerful judiciary than we do, checking laws and the actions of the executive against a written constitution and (more importantly) several hundred years of constitutional judgements, and they have a whole process for appointing the courts to match. And I doubt anyone is wildly keen to replicate French politics as some model of stability and good governance. It's not as simple as "Charles out, former PM in", you have to either ponder how you will encourage people to vote for non-executive presidents, or how you will control an elected executive president, or be willing to accept that a system as opaque as the German or Italian systems are "more democratic" enough to be worth the effort.

[HarlotBronte]

That's not an economist falling, that's an opinion piece from a pro-establishment newspaper. They make an assertion about tourist revenue that they even admit is unquantifiable. It's not a remotely reliable source. They don't even bother to consider whether it's the monarchy or the trappings of a once-existent monarchy ie palaces etc that people want to come and see.

[southeastastra]

charles always seemed to have an 'appreciation' of modern life where would you think otherwise? i don't get the prince charles hate, he seems more at tune with working class people than will/harry do. the spencer family were bloated aristocrats

[HopeClearwater]

I appreciate him for the Duchy of Cornwall products

They're nothing special and not worth the money, much like their namesake.

Cambridge only gave the bloke a 2:2 because he couldn't be seen to come out with any less. There's no way any of his papers were marked blind.

Oh and whenever you see any of the statistics about how much money the Royals allegedly bring in, remember that those figures don't include the massive bill for their security.

[EverySongbirdSays]

This thread has been entertaining.

I always felt a bit sorry for Charles in a way, in terms of the fact he was a sensitive, arty, child who was a completely mystery to both his parents and suffered from the thing that UC boys tend to of having been sent away much too young and not being able to express themselves emotionally. A sort of attachment disorder.

I'm grateful to the Princes Trust I got funding for equipment from them as a kid

Debo Mitford was a great friend of Charles, and I love her based on her letters

Nobody can deny he did well by the boys when Diana died. It is to be noted that neither have anything much to do with Earl Spencer and were said to be incredibly upset by his eulogy. They are by contrast, close to Philip. Notable too Diana's behaviour around the Martin Bashir interview when it came to William. That was fairly disgraceful. She wasn't perfect.

He very likely didn't know Savile was a paedo. He'd have been on best behaviour around royalty. It's not as though he would have confided.

RE Succession it' been said but if Queen dies - Charles, Queen, Charles die - William. All 3 die and Harry becomes regent until George turns 18

Andrew doesn't have a look in and one of the things Charles has done is to try and 'streamline' events so its just him and his sons so it doesn't look like a whole vast army of freeloaders. That's why Louise Windsor is a Lady not a Princess like Beatrice and Eugenie because heir relevancy will decrease and decrease. For now, Queens Grandaughter, then Kings Niece, then Kings Cousin etc. Andrew comes over as rather bitter about it. Which amuses me. Not really a royals "fan" just find the aristocracy in general fascinating.

[LarryStylison]

Everysongbird

He may not have known for definite, but he will have certainly heard the rumours around him. Everyone had heard the rumours. If I heard those kind of rumours about my best mate, I would ask about them, who wouldn't?

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

He doesn't bother me. Like the Queen I can take or leave him.

[EverySongbirdSays]

Everyone heard the rumours

Yes, me too, though after he was dead. Nobody acted. Not just Prince Charles. Nobody. This is what I've never understood about Savile. Literally hundreds of victims came forward. Esther flaming Rantzen of Child flaming line knew.
It baffles me.

If Charles did hear them, it's likely he dismissed them as spite rather than took them on board as truth. Many people did.

[Falling270]

I think it's grasping at straws a bit to discredit Prince Charles because he had a relationship of some kind with Saville. He obviously didn't know/ believe the rumours as is the case with everyone else who associated with him whilst alive. Some people may of like Charles but it's a bit of a leap to infer he's a paedophile sympathiser isn't it.

[WallisSimpson11]

HopeClearwater They're special to ME- I like the quality of it and it's a pity that you can't grasp the good quality and ethics put in his products- (which is why they get sold).

[corythatwas]

Falling270 Sun 24-Apr-16 21:21:30

"Charles didn't choose to be a member of the royal family, none of them did. But can all of you day if you were born into that privilege and all your family around you were doing the same thing you think you would choose to reject it and live as a normal person?"

He was also schooled into the ideas of what a constitutional monarch is and he chooses to ignore that. What some of us are trying to point out is that it comes as a whole package: either you accept the deal or you don't. If he believes in the constitutional monarchy and believes that he should be part of it, then he needs to stick to the rules.

He could perfectly well abdicate and carry on living the same privileged life as his siblings: the difference would be that he would not be heir to the throne. He would hardly be living on the streets. But there would be considerably less interest in his opinions.

[Falling270]

Cory do you mean the fact he is divorced and has remarried?

Yes the monarchy is constitutional but there are arguments that it also needs to reflect the 21st century and "move with the times". I don't think divorcing and remarrying is reason enough to pressure him to abdicate, when considered on balance with the good work he does for charity.

Or are you referring to him influencing parliament?

[icebearforpresident]

Never met him but my brother has. He works for a local farming group who are a major producer in the area and Prince Charles visited about 8 years ago. My brother,who doesn't give a rats arse about the royal family and probably couldn't pick the queen out of a line up,said he was friendly,charming and genuinly interested in the work they were doing. The local paper ran a photo of him laughing with my brother,who was wearing a slurry covered boiler suit (he'd been muck spreading 10 minutes earlier)

Personally I think he gets too much stick, Diana played her doe-eyed, poor little princess card well.

[eaglesreach]

There is nothing that says we have to have a head of state anyway. What is this obsession about one. We are allowed to change the rules. The country could get by fine with just a prime minister believe it or not. The current "head of state" is irrelevant.

[KERALA1]

My sister has worked with him and the queen.

She is NOT a royalist lets say no more. Country of however many million people and this man is the best we can do as our representative?! Surely not. I can think of 5 or 6 normal non famous friends off top of my head who would do a way way better job.

And the cap doffing "isn't he a nice man" is rather cringeworthy.

[motherinferior]

No, the rules that if you are a titular monarch you shut the f*ck up.

[IcingandSlicing]

The official successiion line to the throne says:

1. Prince Charles
   
2. Prince William
   
3. Prince George
   
4. Princess Charlotte
   
5. Prince Harry
   

And then

1. Prince Andrew
   

I don't see how even if Charles abdicates Andrew will bypass William and his family and Harry.

[StillDrSethHazlittMD]

I've met him and Camilla. Liked them both.

The whole titular monarchy is, in some ways, a no win situation for them. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a Windsor.

[ElspethFlashman]

Fuck it, I like him.

He does shitloads of engagments per year, both here and abroad. He'll keep on doing shitloads into his nineties, just like his parents. He does the job he was born to do.

Yeah, he's rich - but I'd rather a rich bloke who works every day and is never going to retire and is a vocal supporter of famers and small businesses than a rich bloke who has no intention of working full time William.

[NotCitrus]

Icing - if PC abdicates, unlike just dying, it cuts off all his issue from the succession too.

elspeth William works in the air ambulance, passing his salary back to the hospital trust, and does loads of engagements like his father and grandma. Could argue if he worked full time he'd be taking a job from someone who needed it.

Met PC once - he made a couple pleasant comments and was quite genial. Not his fault he was ordered (by Philip, apparently) to marry a guaranteed virgin and Diana was the least inappropriate one going!

I've also read a lot of his black-spider letters and don't think they should have been published - if he's going to become head of state, he needs a forum to ask all the stupid questions in the same way as Ministers are protected from FOI via the "ministerial thinking space". He doesn't get the opportunity to do it in person much so it makes sense that he writes letters.

Will be very interesting to see how PC as King goes over with other heads of state - the Queen has huge personal influence, partly from being in the role so long. I'm told she's headed off several wars by listening to young despots telling her their plans and calmly observing things like "Ah yes, I recall your grandfather had the same idea. I believe it didn't work out well for him?"