AIBU to think the death penalty should sometimes be used?

[Gide]

In cases such as mass murderers, paedophiles, rapists? Obviously only if there is absolutely no doubt at all about their guilt.

[BarbarianMum]

pearlyum honestly, I'm not sure. I'd like to think not but fear I'd be willing to make an exception in some cases - acts of mass murder, child killing.

As my primary objection is never likely to be overcome though, I generally don't think any further about it.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

YABU. For the state to indulge in cold-blooded killing would be dragging us down to below the criminals' level.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

However, if you look at how much it will cost to keep Ian Huntley or mark bridger safe during their life sentences - how many nurses' salaries or hospital beds or schools would that pay for?

That's a ridiculous argument. Take it to its logical conclusion and we should kill everyone who merits a prison sentence.

[Ludways]

Yabu, I am against the death penalty for many of the reasons already listed on this thread. It is a barbaric practice.

[RaeSkywalker]

YABU.

The death penalty is not a deterrent. Therefore, what point does it serve? It is medieval form of vengeance delivered in the name of the state in response to the most repellent, emotive crimes.

As others have said- not in my name.

[Patapouf]

ew, YABVU.

Civil society is nothing without that basic human right.


It is not about the rapist's right to live, it is about government's right to kill people. It is not only uncivilised but also dangerous to give governments that power. this x1000

[Haggisfish]

But what do we do when people start deliberately committing awful crimes to get sent to prison for a long time because they know they will be guaranteed food and shelter? This surely can't be far away.

[RaeSkywalker]

Haggis I would be astounded if anyone was driven to murder and rape simply to get a roof over their head.

Also, prison is a flipping awful place, not a B&B.

[JessicasElephant]

haggis, what about a state where people were guaranteed food and shelter anyway? Maybe via some sort of system of 'benefits' whereby a person could get enough money for food and housing if they were desperate?

[arkestra]

It is simply a fact that having capital punishment means that some innocent people will be executed for crimes that they did not commit. Anyone supporting capital punishment should acknowledge this fact.

There's a good book on this that came out round 1961 when the UK was gearing up to get rid of the death penalty: "Hanged in error"

It went over a number of cases where people were hung for murders that we now know they were innocent of.

You can buy it for 1.50 second hand from Amazon: www.amazon.co.uk/Hanged-error-Leslie-Hale/dp/B0000CL4HS?ie=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&%2Aentries%2A=0&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[PurpleDaisies]

I'm another against the death penalty. Civilised societies should not kill people. That's it.

[Haggisfish]

But it's just not happening, is it? People are currently in need of housing and food and not getting it. Population is increasing almost exponentially. I know prison is not b&b, but I honestly don't think it will be long before people are driven to crime looking to be sent to prison.

[Haggisfish]

I agree in principle that there should be no death penalty but I do also massively resent the amount of money being spent keeping awful people alive, like the lee rigby killers.

[TooOldForGlitter]

You can't pose a question like this on here because the first two or three answers will determine the course of the thread. People will absolutely fall over each other to say, what is perceived as, the right thing.

I'd like to think that I could say no to the death penalty. That I'm so very better than that. Yet faced with my rapist, my violent ex, every person who has abused or hurt me or mine etc etc, could I be oh so very mumsnetty and liberal? No.

[JessicasElephant]

haggis, it's not the 'keeping them alive' that costs loads of money, it's the 'keeping us safe from them'. Killing them would be another very expensive way of keeping us safe, but I don't want anybody killing anybody else in my name.

[RaeSkywalker]

TooOld- sounds like you've been through a lot If someone I loved was killed, I would almost certainly want the person who did it to die. But that's the reason why families and victims don't decide the sentence. And just because I would feel like that, it doesn't make the death penalty right.

I'm a little offended that you think we're all falling over ourselves to agree with each other. This is something I am passionate about, and I would be arguing exactly the same point regardless of what other people were saying. It's too important.

[RaeSkywalker]

haggis I'd rather that Lee Rigby's killers were alive than martyrs.

[LikeDylanInTheMovies]

If it could be guaranteed 100% that someone had murdered (and this is purely hypothetical) would you then agree with capital punishment?

As this is impossible to know and past experience would suggest that innocent people will be killed, it is impossible to separate this from the wider debate around the death penalty.

I would throw the question back to those in favour of capital punishment: 'why do you support capital punishment in the light of extremely high possibility that innocent people will die (potentially you or a loved one)?

But no,miscarriages of justice argument isn't my only objection. The state should display better behaviour than the absolute worst of its citizens. By sinking to their level it degrades us all.

[TooOldForGlitter]

Rae I've been here long enough to have seen a million of these threads and they always go the same way. The first few posts lead the rest of the thread. It's a bit..off to say you're offended by my viewpoint. Nothing in the criminal justice system is going to change because of a thread on mumsnet.

[houseeveryweekend]

YABU
nothing gives anyone the right to take someone elses life. That is murder. Like it or not people who commit crimes are human and connected to us. No one is born evil and we all hold some responsibility for the behaviour of others. I think if someone does something wrong we should try and think about why rather than just mindlessly punishing them. If we think about why, we have more of a chance from preventing awful things from happening in the future. If we just detatch and say 'those people are evil' the same things will just keep happening over and over. I used to work on a sex offenders ward in a hospital and the majority of those people were either incredibly ill to the extent you could not hold them accountable for their behaviour or they have been very seriously and horrifically abused themselves. Prison is full of people who have committed terrible crimes because they have been let down time and time again throughout their lives by everyone around them. Mental illness, poverty, child abuse. Yes they have to take responsibility themselves for what they've done but also the whole of society has a responsibility for them. Its easy to say that some people are just born evil and if we killed them it would end the problem. Its easy and its a lie.
I always like to think im a good person and I try to do the right thing but the fact is that that is a lot easier for me to do than it is for some other people. Because I didn't grow up in abject poverty, because my parents loved me, because I wasn't hit and raped throughout my childhood, because im not addicted to drugs, because im not very seriously mentally ill. In some cases its only been luck that has separated us from people who go down bad paths and end up doing something horrific. I think we should always try and understand that so that less and less people will end up going down these paths.

[lurked101]

"could I be oh so very mumsnetty and liberal? No."

Which is why the state takes care of it, and its called justice and not revenge.

[Out2pasture]

if the criminal would prefer death to a life time incarceration (and indeed life time no parole for certain crimes) then by all means allow them that personal choice.
I too agree that for many crimes labor could be valuable.

[PaulAnkaTheDog]

Yabu. It's murder. What gives us the right to take away the life of another? The whole idea of 'an eye for an eye' is barbaric.

[PaulAnkaTheDog]

Bullshit glitter. Complete and utter bullshit.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Ynbu. In your thinking. I used to want the death penalty reinstated, but.
I think hanging them from a rope, lethal injection or the electric chair is too easy for them and bails them out. Yes. Id rather them stay here and suffer, and be haunted by their victims.