Stephen Fry should resign from being President of MIND (warning about sexual abuse)

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

According to Stephen Fry from an interviews he gave in the US

There are many great plays which contain rapes, and the word rape now is even considered a rape,” he said. “If you say: ‘you can’t watch this play, you can’t watch Titus Andronicus, or you can’t read it in a Shakespeare class, or you can’t read Macbeth because it’s got children being killed in it, it might trigger something when you were young that upset you once, because uncle touched you in a nasty place’, well I’m sorry. It’s a great shame and we’re all very sorry that your uncle touched you in that nasty place, you get some of my sympathy, but your self-pity gets none of my sympathy because self-pity is the ugliest emotion in humanity.

“Get rid of it, because no one’s going to like you if you feel sorry for yourself. The irony is we’ll feel sorry for you, if you stop feeling sorry for yourself. Just grow up.”

How can he keep his position with such an attitude. Everyone who works in MH knows of the horrendous impact that sexual abuse can have on someone's life for some it's a life long struggle.

Maybe it's his own feelings that he is fighting against, this is not the first time he has been shown to lack empathy but to have such opinions

I hope he steps down

[Lilyargin]

Very well put MrsDeVere. Complete non sequitur.

[Waltermittythesequel]

If he is such a brilliant wordsmith how come its so apparently easy to take his words out of context?

Quite.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

If you did deep enough, he has a point, but he is still a massive Leftie twat.

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

He added, referring to controversy over a statue of Cecil Rhodes at Oriel College in Oxford: 'I think it started to happen in Britain with the attempted removal of statues of people who are considered unlikable - who were once beloved - and have become in a very 1984 way, "unpersons"'.



he seems to have turned into a reactionary old git

this is pure 'stuff and nonsense' 'pull yourself together' type twaddle

Rhodes unlikable

[applecatchers36]

Can't believe he is president of Mind. He is a total biological determinist, he believes depression is caused by an 'imbalance of chemicals' in the brain. He doesn't include the significance and importance of trauma in mental health, contrary to the British Psychological Society viewpoint ( but in keeping with what OP writes) what a buffoon.

[Fauchelevent]

Stephen Fry is pompous and irritating and basks in that like it's an achievement. I have no time for him.

I never understand this thing of being anti trigger warnings like they're some new fangled censorship. I've never NOT known shows to have some kind of warning, be it the watershed, age rating or a warning before the show of the contents. No one is saying "i was abused, therefore nothing i dont like can be shown" but rather "please give me a heads up so i can opt out of seeing this"

But any excuse to complain about the world considering others feelings, i guess.

[echt]

He is a total biological determinist, he believes depression is caused by an 'imbalance of chemicals' in the brain

But emotional trauma can and does alter the chemical balance of the brain.

[BillSykesDog]

I totally agree with him about the Rhodes statue. I think destroying something that is part of our history because it doesn't fit in with what is the dominant ideology of the time has a hell of a lot more in common with the Taliban blowing up Buddhas or ISIS destroying Palmyra than we would like to admit.

Aside from that, I don't know if it appears that way to anyone else, but to me he seems to be alluding mainly to women. And it's one of a long line of unpleasant comments he's made about women. E.g., women don't like sex, women only have sex for money or to manipulate people. If they really liked sex women would be having quick shags with strangers behind trees on Hampstead Heath. Lovely.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Bill I agree with you entirely.

[FelicityFunknickle]

He is a clever man, and really should know the importance of semantics.
we're all very sorry that your uncle touched you in that nasty place
Dismissive, trivialising and verging on sneering.

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

Ach I'm sure statues disappear or get quietly moved all the time, everywhere

Its not that, though-its the sort of language he uses. Its all so 'come come now, what are you making all this dreadful fuss about, I'm not bothered so you shouldn't be either'-minimising the issue/s

In the case of CR I don't think either beloved or unlikable really do here

Lots of what SF says now just sounds like a tossed off spectator column

Totally agree with the thing about women

[FelicityFunknickle]

And yy mrsdevere totally agree.

[MrsHathaway]

If he were as knowledgeable about MH as he claims, he'd already be aware that the severity of the traumatic event(s) doesn't seem to be a very good predictor of the severity of the PTSD, compared with underlying MH and personality. It's almost as though people get mentally ill and can't control it. Who knew?!

[nooka]

The interview is on YouTube:

Starts off with SF suggesting that the interviewer has a 'boner', then gets quite intellectual, followed by a bit promoting constitutional monarchies, then the host gets into how he loves V for Vendetta, and then gets into the 'regressive left'. Stephen Fry then talks about removing statues of 'unlikable' people and giggles a bit about Cecil Rhodes being 'a bit of a monster' while appearing to big him up, and then laughs some more about stealing other people's countries. Apparently the appropriate response is really to throw the occasional egg at the statue.

Now I get his point that life is indeed complicated and some people see things in a bit of a black and white way, but the giggling and laughing was a bit off putting. Then he goes into a bit of a snobby rant about fast food and baseball caps and how everyone is being infantalised. Then I think he is quite interesting about how people should think and understand that life is complex, which is of course true, but makes his final piece even more odd really. I work for a North American university and have read lots of pieces about the pros and cons of trigger warnings. It's not a clear cut issue because it is complex and requires thinking (as just suggested!) but even the most vehement defenders of the importance of universities being a place of challenge don't use child abuse as their example (and I do think 'uncle touched you in a nasty place' is a really really odd thing to say).

The follow up line is delivered in a very intense and quite unpleasant way, so first trivialising people's possibly horribly damaging experiences and then attacking them and denying them any empathy at all 'no one's going to like you if you feel sorry for yourself' followed by a really nasty 'just grow up'. For what, finding Titus Andronicus difficult? It's a really gruesome play after all (murder, rape, mutilation, more murder, cannibalism etc), not too surprising some might find it a bit much and appreciate a warning.

[applecatchers36]

Interesting article in the guardian

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/stephen-fry-free-speech-child-abuse-bullying-safe-spaces?CMP=fb_gu

[fusionconfusion]

Everything alters the chemical balance of the brain. Learning alters the chemical balance of the brain. Inertia alters the chemical balance of the brain. It is a pointless, meaningless way of describing almost any aspect of human behaviour with limited potential for prediction or influence. His views on mental health are incredibly outdated and based on shaky evidence.

I don't agree with censorship and I don't think the current cultural tendency to view "triggers" as something that need to be accommodated rather than effectively intervened with to reduce their destructive psychological power is workable or helpful in a wide range of contexts.

However, the sneering deriding way that he has referred to child sexual abuse here is not appropriate for someone who represents one of the major institutions for mental illness in the country, given the number of people who - through no fault of their own and through experiencing the trauma of CSA - suffer from mental illness.

[fusionconfusion]

And to be honest, it's not the "grow up" I have the issue with, it's this:
"because uncle touched you in a nasty place". How fucking dare he.

[MrsHathaway]

I came on to post that same link. Here are the bits I liked best:

We don’t live in a culture that “indulges” abuse victims; we live in one that is woefully failing them. Fry is talking rubbish.

To blithely assert that everyone enjoys the same right to free speech is like claiming that I have a right to buy a large house in north London because there is a “free market”. Theoretically it is possible, but life in our real world isn’t like that.

Free speech isn’t under attack; platform privilege is. Stephen Fry, Germaine Greer and the rest of the commentariat are the free speech 1%, enjoying regular and ready access to platforms the rest of the population can only dream about. When you use such platform privilege to pour scorn on minorities and sneer at victims of child abuse, you’re not a champion of free speech – you’re a bully.

[ColinFirthsGirth]

His wording was very insensitive
Never liked him though.

[Boogers]

fusionconfusion that's exactly the bit that got me too. It's a dismissive way of trivialising a horrific thing.

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

Colin

it's been a looong time since mn made me LITerally spit my tea, but your username just did

tvm

[nauticant]

Is the growing censorship in the arts a problem? Yes.

Do some people approach dealing with their trauma in a way that is other than ideal which might hinder recovery? Yes.

However, Fry has mixed these two thoughts together and presented them in a half-baked and inflammatory way. To me it looks like a form of trolling to get the attention he craves. As such it uses people's suffering in a cheap way. Add to that the fact that if people complain he will most likely respond that somehow he's the victim.

[FujimotosElixir]

Wow,just i had to double check i was reading correctly i cant believe him of all people, although he does have mh himself so maybe it was a rant whilst unwell himself but im still stretching there.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Is the growing censorship in the arts a problem? Yes.

Is it?