To think that shops and pubs are no place for dogs?

[Misssss]

We went to the pub for dinner last night. It is a naice pub with a good menu. When we walked in at about 7.30pm there was a cacophony of barking because at least four dogs, owned by different people, had decided to "play," with each other.

This afternoon we were shopping at a little retail park. Lots of little handbag type dogs were being paraded round. One woman even let her two dogs walk all over the rugs on display.

Aibu to think that they shouldn't be there? Why can't the dogs be left at home. Obviously these weren't guide dogs, just pets.

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

So many people talk crazy about their dogs and yet will leave them on their own for the whole day. Oh I love my dog! But not enough to see to their emotional needs for 8 hours a day.

I think you'll find they're a minority, and all the lovely sensible dog owners on this thread would look down on them too.

Just though I'd throw that in there. Seeing as how there's at least three different conversations running in here already.

[wasabipeanut]

I think you'd need a lot of dogs in a pub to get a hairy plate of chips. Their owners would all have to be brushing them st the same time as well it's funny but in years of cat and latterly doc ownership I've never found hair in my food.

[Lurkedforever1]

Yeah ok then, dogs aren't pack animals. I always believe someone is experienced about dogs when they start explaining the difference between an actual wolf pack and studies on captive wild animals as though it's news, when some of us take it for granted. Or for thinking that someone might use 'pack' in reference to some antiquated training method, rather than just a quick way to differentiate between group animals such as pack of dogs, herd of horses, and those that live lone lifestyles except for breeding.

flirty that's absolutely your choice, and one many businesses recognise a market for and cater to by having no dogs rules. Doesn't mean every business must. Dog owners don't turn up at those places and start whining 'but I want to bring my dog in'. So no need for people to turn up at dog friendly places and then start whining they don't want dogs there.

[sparechange]

*draught

[sparechange]

Flirty
Hair doesn't float upwards though, unless there is a big draft. And if there was enough airflow to push hair around, you don't even want to know what it would be whipping up from the floors and seats.

I've been a waitress and I carried plates at above-waist height. It would have to be a pretty huge dog for the hair to drop onto plates

Pubs smell. Pubs have drunk people, muddy people, puking people, sweaty people.
People who don't wash their hands after going to the loo, people who have come there straight from playing rugby caked in mud, people who haven't had a shower for 48 hours and are mortally hung over.

Toilets have traces of class A drugs, floors are covered in god knows what (you should see the colour of the water after they've been mopped)

If you are such a special snowflake that a bit of dog hair will offend your delicate nose and hygiene standards, a pub surely isn't your first choice of destination?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

I like pubs without small children. I also prefer pubs without loud conversation, don't like stinky toilets, hate loud music etc. In all these likes and dislikes, I just go about life finding places that suit me and avoiding those that don't. I actually think having dogs in pubs tends to add to the cozy family atmosphere as long as they sit there being quiet. Generally they are where they ought to be. If you dont like it, choose somewhere else. Life is surely too short.

Shops, well, on holiday it's occasionally a real treat to find shops that allow dogs - the hiking shops in betws y coed are a good example. I expect the retailers have worked out - rightly - that it's good for trade. But dog friendly shops on the whole are v unusual, ime of 11 years of dog-friendly holidaying, so I'm not sure it's a real issue to be bothered by.

[PageStillNotFound404]

Oh and btw, I wasn't giving you the information because it's new to me or because I've only just discovered it. I was giving it to you because based on the only evidence I had to go on - your posts - you didn't appear to know it. And nothing you've said since has caused me to change my opinion on that.

[PageStillNotFound404]

Yeah, still doesn't alter the fact you used the terminology incorrectly

Humans are not part of the dog's pack by any of the commonly accepted ethological or canine behavioural definitions of pack. Simple as that. You can wave your somewhat dubious credentials in the air as much as you like but it doesn't make your previous post correct.

[flirtygirl]

Wasabi
There is a issue with hygiene and dogs, the hair can get everywhere and as a poster said up the thread about when they worked in a dog friendly cafe that floating dog hair landing on food was a problem.
If you enjoy your chips with a side order of hair then fine but what about us who dont.
Also eating around pets puts me off my dinner, in fact wouldnt even start eating, its a massive hygiene issue

[Lurkedforever1]

page seems I was right: You think that your knowledge is something new, when to people like me it's something we've always done. If you never bought into the dominant fighting alpha pack theory in the first place, you don't need it debunking by a new study. Bit like herd theory with horses. People with experience know exactly how a herd operates, and how we as humans fit in with it. The less experienced come along and tell you that stallions don't lead the herd, thinking they are revealing something you don't know. The dog world is no different.

[FarrowandBallAche]

I don't get this ' slobbery dog ' statement.

Some breeds drool, yes. But dogs on the whole aren't slobbery.

I have 3 dogs. 2 never slobber. Ever. Not when they're waiting to be fed, when they can smell or see food or when they've had a drink.

One of them slobbers only after he's had a big drink and then he's gets his chops wiped.

[wasabipeanut]

Provided people don't allow their dogs to "slobber" over others I really don't see the issue. If said animals stay close to their owners & are basically still then how can people object - they aren't harmed by the dogs presence.

[PageStillNotFound404]

sparechange I won’t bore you with the details as I am aware I’m taking this off topic, but suffice to say that in ethology, “pack hunter” (rather than "pack animal" which refers to a beast of burden) and “herd animal” have commonly understood and quite precise meanings, which are not even close to the definition made up by Lurkedforever. I would expect someone claiming the level of knowledge that they did to know that and to use the terminology correctly.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

not everyone likes dogs get over it

Not everyone likes cats my cat doesn't seemed bothered by this and neither am I

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Dogs slobber some more than others

It's not unreasonable to not want to be around dogs when you have paid
for a meal out. And I am not including guide dogs as they are needed by their owners pets do need to be with their owners constantly

[wasabipeanut]

The hygiene/no dogs where food is served argument is utter bollocks - unless all pubs disinfect their customers on the way in as well. Who knows where hands might have been and how well they've been washed?

Dogs are rightly banned from actual food prep areas but there's no need to ban them from eating areas. They aren't inherently unhygienic.

Most town centre places don't allow dogs anyway, it's just the old rural pubs now - what's left of them

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

They well could be

But it's now become common place for people to take their dogs to the pub Friday evenings and Saturday afternoon. Thankfully two local pubs that I know of ask owners to take their dogs outside when it is busy as it was creating issues people complaining about not wanting dogs around while they are eating their food, this is perfectly reasonable, and dogs barking at other dogs or for whatever other reason

The gardens are not over run with dogs and surprisingly the dogs are more often ok to be left at home

[sparechange]

Enthusiasm
What about if the dog isn't slobbering? Is it then ok?

Taking a dog 'shopping' depends on your definition of going shopping
Of course it would be weird to drag pooch around Topshop for the afternoon, but shopping for me means puttering around my local area. I go for a coffee and read, then might grab a bottle of wine from the wine shop, and veg from the greengrocers and some meat from the butchers and some stamps from the newsagents on my way home. DDog would be happy to tag along for all of that, and would be warmly greeted by each one of those shops.

[Jeremysfavouriteaunt]

sparechange spot on with that comment, I understood what was meant by the original post too.

[PageStillNotFound404]

Not everyone eating in a pub with a dog is necessarily close enough to home to leave their dog there, EnthusiasmDisturbed. They could be out for the day, and the time they’re spending out of the house would be too long to leave a dog alone even if they wanted to. They could be on holiday and, as I mentioned above, most pet-friendly cottages/hotels etc ask that dogs are not left alone in the property or room. They could even be staying in the pub as some offer dog-friendly accommodation. Or they could, as you say, simply be on their way back from a dog walk and the pub is en route.

[sparechange]

Page, horses are commonly referred to as herd animals though. Presumably because of the differing collective nouns for dogs and horses.
But it is besides the point. You should be sticking together in the face of people saying a pub visit isn't enhanced by a few dogs..!

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I don't mind dogs in gardens of the pub but not sure why they are taken there unless you have been for a walk

I don't want someone's slobbering dog next to me when I am eating

As for shops no of course not unless of course they are guide dogs

It's selfish to think others want to be around your dog take them to the park, a common and then leave them at home you might enjoy their company but not everyone else does

[PageStillNotFound404]

But to me, a pack animal is one that can and does operate and interact as part of a group, and doesn't have it's emotional needs fully met living in isolation.

Well yes, we are going to be talking at cross purposes if you're simply making up your own definition for words that already have an established meaning within the area under discussion.

Horses don't have their needs fully met living in isolation. They are not commonly referred to as "pack animals".
Gerbils don't have their needs fully met living in isolation. They are not commonly referred to as "pack animals".
Chimpanzees don't have their needs fully met living in isolation. They are not commonly...you see where I'm going with this?

If you don't use terminology correct, you can't be surprised when people assume you're not an expert in the field.

[Lurkedforever1]

Again, talking at cross purposes.
page it's absolutely fine for you to assume I need informing on how dogs interact with each other. However I have enough experience to class that in the 'blindingly obvious, can't remember ever not knowing that group'. But nothing wrong with being in the group that assumes they are educating others with what they think is a knowledgable insight.

john perhaps to you pack theory means some dodgy research on captive wolves. But to me, a pack animal is one that can and does operate and interact as part of a group, and doesn't have it's emotional needs fully met living in isolation. Hence why a pet dog needs us, it's human pack, to satisfy it's emotional needs for company etc.

[zeezeek]

I have had dogs all my life ( nearly 50 years) and each and every one had their own personality quirks. Dogs are not some kind of brainless blob, they are intelligent sentient creatures with needs and feelings of their own. Anyone who thinks that all you need to do with a dog is train it to sit and not attack humans knows fuck all about them.

And whilst we may not parent our dogs like our children, good dog owners treat them with love and understanding and respond to their emotional needs as well as training them how to socialise. Like children they need guidance.