to ask managers how they view time off work for kids being ill?

[MaximumHoldMousse]

Hi I would really appreciate some insight please! My preschooler has got an awful bug, keeps vomiting after every drink, really nasty. I was working from home when I had to collect from nursery. I emailed in to explain situation, and that I thought she would sleep so I could continue with work but she stayed awake so I couldn't till late at night (managed to get work done in the end). Today my OH was of with her. She can't go to nursery tomorrow so will have to be off I think. I would just really appreciate anyone who has parents working for them, how do you feel about this? Does it happen a lot? Am really new (1 month) into my job and worried it looks bad.. But then I feel daft for worrying..

tl,dr: how annoyed would you be if your employee was off work because their child was ill?

Thanks! x

[drspouse]

It is usual for carers leave to be aimed at allowing you the time to find suitable alternative care rather than for you to be off the whole time your child is ill.

For quite a lot of illnesses the parent is expected to "be at the child's bedside" as my employer puts it. This is rather different to a childcare emergency where another childcare arrangement will "do" but can't always be put into place at 8am on a Monday when the CM rings to say she herself is going into hospital.

In the case of a child being ill then you can't get a babysitter to go and be in hospital with the child and nor can you usually find an alternative carer who will care for them while they are actively ill.

Fortunately these are usually quite short illnesses (children are off for 1-2 weeks with chicken pox but a local teenager who's had it could come and look after them at home, but children being off 48h with D&V nobody is going to want to look after them in case they get it!). If you have a child in hospital long term then that's probably an annual/compassionate leave job.

[Buckinbronco]

It would have to be annual leave. I have small children and I am a a manger and sympathise but I wouldn't allow time off without it being annual leave (emergency care aside) and we wouldn't allow you to work from home whilst caring for a child.

I sympathise and I've been there. I feel it annoys people but i can see why. 1 month into my job there would have to be no other option for me to take the time off- you're still in probation

Also I would need a phone call not an email

[monkeymamma]

I'm so shocked by the general tenor of most comments tbh. No one wants to miss work, but if your kid is sick who on earth will look after them but you? I tell you what this attitude leads to: bloody parents depositing their poorly children at nursery or school in the hope they can limp through the day without getting so bad that the parents are called back to pick them up. The nurseries clearly turn a blind eye to this, if the number of kids having calpol dispensed by carers at my son's nursery is anything to go by. And you know what that leads to? More kids catching the bugs and more parents having to miss work. IMO it's BAD management to do anything other than support your employees to take the time they need. You really think they're gonna do their jobs well while stressing about their ill children (possibly being looked after by a random stranger as per pp!)????!!!

[Buckinbronco]

Woodleypixie

It's the child sick though isn't it, and who would be able to stop you taking annual leave for whatever you want?

[StopShoutingAtYourBrother]

I'd expect someone to work from home if they can, and if that means they need to work outside the traditional 9 - 5 I personally would be ok with this. I've been lucky enough to have flexible managers when my DC were young and sick so I in turn try to treat my staff as adults and I trust the to balance their home and work commitments.

If this wasn't possible I'd expect them to take the day off as holiday.

If this was a recurrent theme (ie lots of last minute working from home / holiday) and it was causing stress on other colleagues in team I'd speak to you to find out if there is a longer term issue which we can find a solution amenable to both parties. If there wasn't then I'd take it down the HR performance route similar to if someone frequently called in sick.

I'd like to hope most employers would be flexible where possible.

Hope your DC gets better.

[LeaLeander]

Parents should be lining up suitable care before an emergency strikes. Surely there are ways to find sporadic carers - youngish retirees, people affiliated with nearby churches, off-duty nurses, neighbors, whatever - whom you can trust with a child who has an ordinary virus. Waiting till you are desperate just looks bad. Part of being a parent is having backup plans and to stand there bewildered when childhood illness strikes, as it always does, makes you look weak and clueless.

My director, a mother of three herself (all born while she was in the latter stages of medical school and sometimes carried in backpack on patient rounds, so it's not like she doesn't understand) has decreed we will no longer employ women of childbearing age because we have been screwed so much by people acting enthusiastic about a job and then taking so much time off for non-life-threatening situations that they were virtually useless. Now with one exception who is soon to be dumped, we all are middle-aged and child free (one man has two adult daughters, actually). Things are running more smoothly.

Businesses aren't charities existing to make one's lifestyle choices easier. It's up to the worker to accommodate the employer, not the other way around. In today's overpopulated world that has so much excess labor capacity, people are easily replaced and if one wants to keep one's job, it's best to bear that in mind. Not Utopia but it is reality.

As to attitudes like t his: I love how some posters think families can cough up for emergency childcare at the last minute! It's probably cheaper to lose a days pay than it is to fork out for an emergency nanny. you have to take the long view. perhaps a near-term loss will be in investment in preserving a job/income for the long term.

[RockNRollNerd]

Re teachers it comes up occasionally on the "things your parents used to do" threads but in the 70s and 80s most teachers kids or certainly me and the ones I know were used to going in to our parent's school and lying on the chairs in the staff room. On one occasion when I got ill at teatime I was bundled into the car and driven 200 miles to grandparents, my folks must have got home after midnight that time. When I turned 10 and was in Guides they deemed this made me sensible and they just used to leave me at home in bed and one parent would pop back at lunch to check I was ok

[manicinsomniac]

I'm a teacher and actually can do an awful lot of work from home (not the actual teaching bit or the meetings obviously but everything I can quite easily).

My employer is very, very good (but he can afford to be because he doesn't get in supply teachers, he just gets the rest of us to cover absent colleagues which causes resentment among the staff room but doesn't affect SLT/bursar at all!!)

We are expected to bring sick children in with us and have them looked after by the nurse in the sick room/surgery if at all possible. But if they're really ill or have D+V then we can just be off. We even still get paid.

I don't know why employers get so upset about the woman taking time off more than the man does. I mean, yes it's horrendously sexist and a bad idea personally but professionally, for the employer, it shouldn't make any difference because what they'll lose in women taking time off they'll gain in men not doing so. (unless the workplace has very few of one gender I guess but that shouldn't happen often?)

Sometimes mummy/ daddy cuddles provides a lovely bonding opportunity, especially for those families where both parents already work ft. I don't want to ship him off to someone else, and certainly not a babysitter

Wow. I'm sure that was very heartfelt and it sounds like you are in a good situation but, if you are ever in the position to, I wouldn't ever say that to a hardnosed city/finance employer - they would probably laugh in your face.

[TheSeptemberIssue]

we will no longer employ women of childbearing age

Wow!

Considering anyone aged between 18 and 45 can have a child, you're basically cutting yourself off from the entire female workforce - despite the fact that some of those women neither have nor want children.

Makes me really glad to be a woman...

[PurpleDaisies]

Sometimes mummy/ daddy cuddles provides a lovely bonding opportunity, especially for those families where both parents already work ft. I don't want to ship him off to someone else, and certainly not a babysitter.
I read this with a little bit of sick at the back of my throat. It's lovely that you want to be with your sick children but is it really your employer's responsibility to facilitate bonding opportunities and mummy/daddy cuddles? Days off work at short notice should be for absolute emergencies when there's no other possible option.

[MaximumHoldMousse]

Wow, she did ward rounds whilst babywearing!? Was this when they were ill or she didnt have childcare?

[LeaLeander]

m so shocked by the general tenor of most comments tbh. No one wants to miss work, but if your kid is sick who on earth will look after them but you?

Well, shouldn't the parent figure out the answer to that question ahead of time?

i am shocked that so many people proceed to produce a human being and then stand there going "Gee, we went ahead and did this despite having no nearby family, no friendship network or other social support in case anything goes wrong, no investigation of paid carers, and yet we can't afford for both of us not to work. What do we do now? Oh, I know, t he employers can suck it up!! It's not our problem, it's the company's problem! That'll work!"

Shouldn't planning for things like this and perhaps moving to an area where family are, or cultivating/joining support networks, or investigating child care costs, etc, be part of the process when contemplating conception?? Part of the reason employers and co-workers are so exasperated is that none of this is rocket science and none of it is a big secret. Kids get sick. Childcare is expensive and scarce. YOU need to figure out how to deal with it ahead of time, not be helpless and foisting the problem on the rest of us when it predictably happens.

(And as to the "we have no family/we have no friends - what are we supposed to do, just not have kids" responses that are sure to come - yes, if you don't have the money and/or the infrastructure, don't have them, would be a reasonable answer. Or "then you need to make extra effort to make friends and otherwise put a good plan in place," would be my second answer. Babies don't "just happen." It's a monumental choice to produce one and you need to thoroughly discuss and plan for all contingencies. The village is tired of taking up the slack.)

[LeaLeander]

"she did rounds while childwearing"

She's a major multi-tasker; never sleeps. It was probably her way of spending quality time with them. Point being she knows what it's like having three kids under 5 and a demanding career and she still is exasperated with the lack of work ethic among the young mothers hired today.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying people need to realize that many managers out there are not terribly sympathetic and as more child free are available to fill jobs, the leniency toward parents is only going to shrink.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Purple I also felt sick too...

My mum a teacher when we were kids rarely took time off work to care for us - if we were old enough it was stay at home in bed and she came back at lunch time to fix us lunch. I think she took time off if we were more sick or younger but otherwise no. She also employed my step grandma to care for my brother when older if he was sick due to asthma illness.

Don't the colleagues of these shirkers get fed up of covering for colleagues who want to bond?!

[Buckinbronco]

Lea that's a pretty inhumane old fashioned answer actually. The real answer is for companies to get into the real world and accept that their employees need a life outside of it. Not just sickness- I said above that I am not massively flexible about this- but the work force is hemmorgaing good women for opinions like yours and they should be derided as ridiculous. What's wrong with leaving the office at 5? Why should I need the excuse of a child to do that? Why should anyone judge my ability on that? It's unintelligent.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Ps I'm currently training to be an office manager and if a mother had too many days off caring for sick children then yes I'd bring it up and yes it would make me think twice re employing a mother with children of school/nursery ages.

[PurpleDaisies]

it would make me think twice re employing a mother with children of school/nursery ages.

You can't discriminate like that. Not all mothers are like that. I'm guessing you're a woman-how would you feel if someone overlooked you for a job/promotion by virtue of you having a uterus?

[Buckinbronco]

How would you know they are a mother when you interview them?

[PurpleDaisies]

Isn't it illegal to discriminate against someone because they are a mother?

[Buckinbronco]

Well how would anyone know you'd done it?

[notinagreatplace]

I don't know why employers get so upset about the woman taking time off more than the man does. I mean, yes it's horrendously sexist and a bad idea personally but professionally, for the employer, it shouldn't make any difference because what they'll lose in women taking time off they'll gain in men not doing so. (unless the workplace has very few of one gender I guess but that shouldn't happen often?)

For an individual manager, it does make a difference. If I have a team of three, it's statistically not that unlikely that two or even three of them will be women. If they all think their husbands' jobs are more important than the ones they're doing for me, it is a problem for me. And the fact that another manager in another team has two or three men to manage hasn't helped me with my immediate problem.

What's wrong with leaving the office at 5? Why should I need the excuse of a child to do that? Why should anyone judge my ability on that? It's unintelligent.

I don't judge anyone's ability on that. However, if someone who relies on their colleagues to pick things up for them refuses ever to stay a minute past 5 to do anything for anyone else then, yeah, I'm going to judge them for wanting flexibility when it suits them but not being willing to be flexible in return.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Ok I wouldn't discriminate but certainly if someone were to take the piss taking time off I'd bring it to more senior management attention.

[LeaLeander]

he work force is hemmorgaing good women

Is there a a labor shortage somewhere, that I am unaware of? Last time I checked most of the major economies of the world were awash in out-of-work and desperate-to-work people.

When one is easily replaced, the employer has little reason to change. Whether or not you think companies should facilitate workers' private lives is irrelevant as long as there is a steady supply of workers who don't feel that way. And with 7 billion humans on this planet and 353,000 more being born each day - all of whom need a job and a livelihood in the not-too-distant future - the idea that workers are going to have MORE clout instead of less, as time wears on, is pretty naive.

[BadgerCrossing]

What gets on my nerves is women who prioritise their partners' jobs to do all the emergency leave

This. I hate it when I have to organise colleagues to cover for this reason. We try to do it because we're a team, but I seethe a bit.

At my place, you'd rearrange work, or take a day's holiday, or a day without pay. There are a set number of days for carer's leave but I think they're meant for serious illness or emergencies. For academics (my job) it's a bit mixed: we can be very flexible a lot of the time, but when we're scheduled to teach, we have no flexibility at all.

[StopShoutingAtYourBrother]

In my experience workplaces are changing. Where I work and socially you are just as likely to see men taking time off work to care for their sick child than women.

Time to move with the future some of you people with your frankly outdated expectations of women always managing the childcare.