to ask managers how they view time off work for kids being ill?

[MaximumHoldMousse]

Hi I would really appreciate some insight please! My preschooler has got an awful bug, keeps vomiting after every drink, really nasty. I was working from home when I had to collect from nursery. I emailed in to explain situation, and that I thought she would sleep so I could continue with work but she stayed awake so I couldn't till late at night (managed to get work done in the end). Today my OH was of with her. She can't go to nursery tomorrow so will have to be off I think. I would just really appreciate anyone who has parents working for them, how do you feel about this? Does it happen a lot? Am really new (1 month) into my job and worried it looks bad.. But then I feel daft for worrying..

tl,dr: how annoyed would you be if your employee was off work because their child was ill?

Thanks! x

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

ctjoy103 - your answer to my question is "no" then?

[Owllady]

I was a retail manager in a former life and I didn't used to make people feel guilty. As a mum myself, I understood how difficult it was. I wanted a team of motivated people, not people whose heart wasn't in it because I made them feel like shit for things that were out of their control. Not everyone has family nearby to help. I found generally the mum's who did have time off, made up their time anyway. Before I get accessed of being sexist, it generally was women who took time off for ill children, but proportionately women outweighed the men in numbers. I have worked places where you are made to feel bad and it really pisses me off and I think it's part of the problem of children being sent into school with stomach bugs etc when they need to be at home. Part of that is because it's easier to receive a phone call from the school office whilst you are at work, rather than using your own judgement IF you have a difficult boss

[AuntieMaggie]

What are these "other suitable arrangements" you all keep mentioning? Because other than a childminder and two parents my ds has nobody else to look after him and if it's contagious obviously the only option is for us to look after him.

Luckily I work in a place that doesn't judge on things like this.

[kawliga]

Seems some people on here are unaware of this legal right. Furthermore employers need to be aware that more women than men are primary carers and so discriminating against a mother who has had time off to care for sick kids could be construed as srx discrimination

OP didn't come on here to ask about her legal rights. She doesn't want to fight legal battles. She wants to build her career. This is an ideal position for her and she wants to keep it, not file sex discrimination claims after getting fired. She's new so she doesn't know whether the employer is a nice understanding mum or...the proverbial difficult boss.

[HermioneJeanGranger]

I love how some posters think families can cough up for emergency childcare at the last minute! It's probably cheaper to lose a days pay than it is to fork out for an emergency nanny.

[kawliga]

What are these "other suitable arrangements" you all keep mentioning

Babysitter? Some babysitters are ok with looking after sick dc. Expensive option, though, but worth it if affordable.

[maydancer]

All the babysitters I know are at school or college on a week day. Where do you find them?

[kawliga]

sitters.co.uk though I know some people don't trust the internet. I had to, I had no choice (single mum) it was either that or don't bother trying to hold down a job. It hurts, but in your case it's very temporary, hopefully your dd will soon be back to good health

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Isn't sitters.co.uk a random(ish) stranger off the internet?

[baffledmummy]

As a manager, my perspective depends entirely on the individual. We have family friendly policies at my work and plenty of folks (both men and women) who are happy to abuse the system. I can just tell by their general attitude to work, how frequently it happens and how they communicate the absence to me and, while they are entitled to it, it does cloud my judgement of them. There are also plenty (thankfully the majority) of people who don't take advantage and when they need to take time off for poorly DC, I know they genuinely need to - happens rarely...they make an effort to call and explain and are concerned for arranging cover etc. In those instances, I am completely fine with it. All comes down to the individual.

Now...as a parent, I am the main breadwinner in our household by quite a significant way. When I return to work after mat leave, my DH will be the one to take time off to look after poorly DC. We've discussed and he actually was the one to propose it as he recognises that we'd be in big trouble if I lost my job but we could survive for a while if he lost his. I'll certainly help on days when it is unavoidable, but the bulk will fall to my DH. So for those who commented that 'their husbands jobs are more important as they earn more" - I'm sorry to say I actually agree with that - we are the same in the opposite direction - I earn more so my work is prioritised so DH will do most of the childcare.

[kawliga]

Yes, it is a random(ish) stranger off the internet and I realize some people would never resort to this. I just mentioned it as an option that some people (including me) have relied on.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Hmm... I wonder if it would be acceptable for a manager to expect/insist a parent entrust the care of their child to a stranger and what the implications could be if something went wrong.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

other suitable arrangements

When my child is ill I want either myself or dh to take care of him. Is that so difficult to comprehend? Sometimes mummy/ daddy cuddles provides a lovely bonding opportunity, especially for those families where both parents already work ft. I don't want to ship him off to someone else, and certainly not a babysitter.

My employer has a discretionary leave policy. Providing you're not taking thread piss and having days off at a time several times a year it's fine. I usually fit some work in between looking after ds (I work from home 3-4 days a week anyway) and explicitly state I am still contactable. They seem to appreciate this and are very understanding. They're very pro-equality/ flexible working though, which is refreshing.

[kawliga]

Hmm... I wonder if it would be acceptable for a manager to expect/insist a parent entrust the care of their child to a stranger and what the implications could be if something went wrong.

No, that wouldn't be acceptable for a manager to do that. I'm sure no manager would do that. I only suggested it to OP as something that I've done. I would never expect anybody to do that, just sharing what I did. I know other mums who do the same. But I also know other mums who would never do that. I don't judge them. I hope they don't judge me.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Oh sorry kaw- I wasn't judging! I was just kind of thinking about those up thread saying how they allow (or are allowed) time off to arrange alternative childcare. In this day and age alternative childcare isn't always readily available (people move away for work, both parents work, grandparents are often still working etc).

My other thought was that when the mother takes most of the time off because she earns less and that (mentioned up thread) this isn't an acceptable attitude to have - start paying them a decent wage and it won't be an issue!

[notinagreatplace]

My workplace (public sector) has very generous policies for this kind of thing. As a manager, my honest feelings about it depend on a range of factors:

a) how good are they at their job generally? If I feel like they are a high performer, generally pulling their weight, generally willing to go out of their way to support others in the team, the odd day off to look after a sick child is no big deal and doesn't really affect how I see them. If they are poorly performing and/or if they are always straight out the door on the dot of 5, I wouldn't forbid them from taking time off for a sick child or anything, but it would be something added to my mental list of "they aren't suitable for a promotion"

b) are they sharing this with their partner or, as others have said, are they taking the "my man's job is just too important" type like. I think their job is quite important, obviously, because I think mine is too and I'm their manager, so that kind of attitude does irritate me. It also tells me that they aren't that interested in progressing their career.

c) are they generally sensitive to the demands of the job and how it intersects with their personal commitments? I.e. if their child is ill but they have a big really important deadline, do they make at least an attempt to work from home to help meet it? Or do they just say "sorry, child is ill, can't do it" and ditch me with it. Again, this is a general thing - if they never make any attempt to be flexible to deal with crises/sudden priorities, but always prioritise leaving on the dot, etc, that's a bigger deal.

d) how often is this happening? I know that parents can't help how often their children are ill but when it happens a lot (more than once every 2-3 months), it is disruptive and does lead to me not relying on them at work, which can lead to their more important work being given to other staff.

I would never say any of this to a member of my team - these are just unvarnished reactions.

[notinagreatplace]

My other thought was that when the mother takes most of the time off because she earns less and that (mentioned up thread) this isn't an an acceptable attitude to have - start paying them a decent wage and it won't be an issue!

I'm not so convinced. I know there are men I work with whose wives think their jobs are just "too important" for them to take time off for these things but their female colleagues are somehow managing it just fine. I think women do these things because they feel as though the buck stops with them and they just have to find a way whereas men feel like, if they have an important deadline/meeting/whatever, they can pass the buck to their wife.

The more a woman does all of this stuff, the less likely she is to progress and the more likely her wage will continue to fall behind her male partner's.

[DrDreReturns]

I've never had a problem when I've had to take time off when my kids have been sick over the years. My son has been in and out of hospital a lot, and DW and I took it in turns to stay on the ward with him. DW is a SAHM but it would be impossible for her to manage everything in those circumstances - one of us has to be in hospital with DS and the other needs to look after DD at home. We have no family in the area who can help. I've been lucky in that I've had understanding bosses, and the nature of my work (in IT) means it isn't tied to specific times like, for example, teaching and retail are. As long as the work gets done no one cares where and when you do it.

[SirRodneyEffing]

I had a colleague who got into trouble when she took emergency leave to look after her poorly child. Her mistake was to then post pictures on Facebook, of said poorly child from the fireworks display they were at when she was due to be on shift.

[ridingabike]

If they are poorly performing and/or if they are always straight out the door on the dot of 5

Oh dear. Those two thing should not be in the same sentence.

Another vote for suggesting DH takes any necessary time off until you have built up a bit more time with your employer.

[MaximumHoldMousse]

Exactly! Am just curious really. i obviously want to stay in my job, i love it :) but at the same time i have had to be off. i can't ask my manager 'what are you really thinking??' but i wish i could

[notinagreatplace]

Oh dear. Those two thing should not be in the same sentence.

Why not? it's about give and take. If someone takes a day off to look after their child and I stay late because their work still needs to be done, I am happy to do that. But the flexibility needs to go both ways - if they are never willing to stay a little later to support their colleagues, that has an impact on how I view them.

[SanityClause]

I have been in a situation where a staff member took a lot of time off for ill children.

After a while we discussed it with her. We made it clear that we expected her to find emergency care, if possible, rather than simply taking the day off herself (she has a mother, MIL, FIL, and step MIL, as well as friends who might all be able to step in). We also suggested her DP should take some of the responsibility for the emergency care.

The leave has much reduced since then. And we really don't mind the odd day, and are happy to be flexible, but FFS, we have a business to run!

[WoodleyPixie]

Honestly? Yes it can be frustrating and make you feel that the person taking time off isn't as committed as you'd like them to be. However as a fellow mother and working mum, I am also empathetic towards the situation.

n a new job, I would expect you to come to me personally and explain the situation and that you were sharing care and ask what can be done at home, or even to come into work after hours once your dp is home and make up the time. Unfortunately the company I work for has no paid time off except for annual leave, that's because we are a small company and so one person missing can really increase everyone else's workload or cause jobs to be cancelled/postponed.

I work from home if I have ill dc, or come into the office once dh is home from work, to catch up on work that can't be done at home. Like my staff I also can't afford to take unpaid leave and so go out of my way to make time up, both because I need the money and also because I don't want my workload to become someone else's issue.

[WoodleyPixie]

I will double check but I was under the impression that legally you can not take annual leave for sick days, as annual leave is a legal requirement for rest and recuperation and not to be used to fund sick leave.

I could have misinterpreted what the employment advice lawyer was saying though.