doctor strike

[JudyWilliams]

Bit of a rant. Has anyone else been moved three times because of the doctors
Strike? I'm booked in for ELCS originally today, then tomorrow, then Friday. Now Monday!

Slowly loosing hope! That and I'm now sofa/bed bound due to hip/back complications. I'm just wondering if anyone is in a similar situation.

[ginpig]

peppatax you're wrong in your assumption that the strikes are jsut about pay. Yes, that is one issue in a myirad of problems this contract throws up. You are also incorrect when you state that the BMA have refused to negotitate on pay. they actually went to the government with a cost-neutral proposal which both sides believed was feasible and Jeremy Hunt himself vetoed it. It has been the governments steadfast refusal to negotiate (they only offered to open negotiation on 1 out of 23 clauses) that kick started this whole sorry strike action.

The junior doctors are trying to tell everyone that they are already at breaking point. There has been mission creep for a long time, with no change in remuneration or working conditions. They simply cannot fulfill the proposed rotas with the current number of available doctors and still provide a qualirt service. This new contract seems them working more strenuous patterns with fewew safeguards. It is desperately unsafe and I, for one, would be very nervous about receiving emergency care or even elcetive care from people working in these conditions. Tired people make mistakes, I know I do- except if that were to happen in my job noone dies.

[glueandstick]

The 10 or so junior doctors I saw who saved both mine and my child's life this week were most definitely at work. They couldn't leave their posts. If it was necessary, they were there.

Each of them were knackered and over worked but kind, professional and didn't rush. They need support rather than being put down further. The government has done a good enough job of that.

Aside from the hours issue, it is disgusting that in that room my husband was the highest paid person with the lowest working hours and stress levels. He may be in a skilled job but never does he have to make life or death calls in the middle of the night. It is so wrong. We need their skills and they should be rewarded for it.

I just hope that these people continue to have the support of the public and it is sorted before it is too late.

[Itscurtainsforyou]

My baby has had his operation cancelled this week because of the strikes.
We've been in hospital for the last 6+ months and I've seen how hard the doctors work and the situations they have to deal with.

I completely support the strike.

[AyeAmarok]

I think the only way this will be resolved is of the Government back down and the junior doctors end up with better pay and conditions than they had before.

It's become so toxic. That's the only way I see it ending.

[CantChoose]

Thanks for the support :)
With regards the comments about pay, I'd obviously love a pay rise - who wouldn't! But the issue is that it will result in an overall cut. For my speciality up to a 30% cut.
It's important to note as well that the junior doctors working at the moment will have our pay protected - so we really aren't striking for pay. I can only assume the govt expected an 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude from us but they were mistaken.

[CantChoose]

I should add that from my point of view, it is about pay in the sense that the offer is insulting because it assumes we couldn't work out the effect of a rise in basic pay negated by a far larger cut in OOH supplement and also as it devalues our profession and the hard work most of us put in on a daily basis...

[thecitydoc]

peppatax But this strike is not about unsafe working hours is it? Yes it is - Jeremy C has shifted the goal posts since the last strike with imposition but the junior Drs beef is still about unsafe hours, Hunt has just thrown petrol onto the fire. My son is a junior Dr - twice this week on his 8am- 8pm shift he has had his first break at 7pm - which meant he went 11 hours without a drink, food or the toilet. If he had been a patient he would have been put on a drip and given a catheter. Last week, not for the first time, when on 9pm - 9.30am night shift he has phoned me to come and get him as he did not feel safe to drive, but was expected to amke decisions about patient welfare. The new contract puts our lives at risk and must be opposed by all of us

[MissTriggs]

my dad is now in hospital...

I don't know what I think any more, there are so many people arguing

I wish both sides would stop the advocacy (which is insulting to the public and I mean both sides here) and sit down and plan for the future together.

[dumbbelle]

They can't sit down and talk it out because it's David and Goliath.

It's like playing chess with a particularly bullying pigeon.

No one can negotiate with someone who says "I know you want to discuss nearly 30 points, but we've decided we can only discuss 3 of them." Or says "If you don't do what I say, I'll force you." That's not negotiation. It's rape.

[Maudofallhopefulness]

I'm backing the doctors 100%. It is so unfair and dangerous what is being imposed on them. The government want a 7 day NHS on the cheap and expect the staff to pay for it. They want the NHS to fail so it can be privatised.

[LaurieMarlow]

Feral, that's admirable and I'm sure that will help in winning the battle for hearts and minds. But they need to be sure that story has permeated public perception.

[weegiemum]

It isn't affecting us in Scotland but my dh worked 96 hour weeks as a junior in the 90s. He's a gp now and still works 70+, but as a senior doctor with his own practice thats his choice.

It wasn't safe in 1995, it really wasn't (he missed his train stop on several occasions as he was so exhausted, he once worked 3 days on 45 mins sleep) and its not safe now. If he could he'd be striking in support.

The English NHS is going down the toilet with Hunt in charge.

[peppatax]

Is the NHS going down the toilet with Hunt in charge and is teaching going down the toilet with Gove in charge because of this Government or having to right wrongs from previous Governments? Just as most managers controlling budgets have to make choices, it's no different here other than people are quick to blame the effect rather than the cause.

[peppatax]

Sorry - with Gove previously in charge.

[MissTriggs]

"They can't sit down and talk it out because it's David and Goliath.
It's like playing chess with a particularly bullying pigeon.
No one can negotiate with someone who says "I know you want to discuss nearly 30 points, but we've decided we can only discuss 3 of them." Or says "If you don't do what I say, I'll force you." That's not negotiation. It's rape."

wow what a post! Can you give more detail? my frustration with the two sides is that they seem to be playing the same game- they both seem very powerful. The Bma advocacy is awful.

I think the vast gulf in experience between nhs employees and the rest of us makes it hard to understand each other.

There are a few helpful posters around like Mamadoc who provide hard facts but they are a rarity in all the noise

[CountessOfStrathearn]

What more detail do you want, MissTrigg? What do you think is awful about the BMA advocacy?

Negotiations have been happening for 3 years now, and the BMA pulled out when the DoH team said that they would only negotiate on a few (fairly minor) points if the BMA agreed to have the rest of the contract and that the contract would just be imposed anyway, which is what happened.

Jeremy Hunt refused the BMA's offer to go to ACAS as independent mediators: (I'm trying to find the videos of the discussions in Parliament but can't and need to get the children dressed, but can come back later.)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-jeremy-hunt-should-be-stripped-of-responsibility-for-negotiations-with-junior-doctors-a6739656.html

The history of the negotiations are on the BMA website:

www.bma.org.uk/working-for-change/junior-and-consultant-contract-home/negotiations-background

You can see the letters sent by the Junior Doctors' Committee chair, Johann Malawana, here:

www.bma.org.uk/working-for-change/junior-and-consultant-contract-home/junior-doctor-contract-negotiations-home/timeline-of-correspondence

The first one there will give you a very detailed response to doctors' issues with the now imposed contract.

Finally, here are some local junior doctors (along with a medical negligence lawyer who has got so irate at the whole thing he has joined up with people he normally sues!) giving blood this week:

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Junior-doctors-strike-Cambridge-positive-thing/story-28899519-detail/story.html

[Panicmode1]

YANBU to be upset about your ELCS being cancelled. However, I 100% support the doctors - my brother is a senior surgical registrar (so still a junior doctor) and is actively looking at other professions (he doesn't want to leave the country) because he doesn't want to be part of a 'company' that is going to routinely end up killing people due to the unsafe practices that Hunt is trying to impose. It is NOT about the money - he left a very lucrative career in the City to retrain as a doctor and would be earning a much larger multiple of his salary for probably slightly more family friendly hours if he'd stayed. He says several of the excellent doctors he works with are moving abroad later this year - to Australia or Canada mainly.

RIP NHS. I pray that no-one in my family is going to be ill after August this year - God help us all!

[JudyWilliams]

Thank you panicmode1. Tomorrow is the day and we are so excited!

I really do support the docs. From
My experience the strength of the NHS is in its staff. All of us. Regardless of age, grade, profession. We all have a sense of pride and vocation. As let's be honest if we wanted to be in it for the money we have gone about it the wrong way!

I do now and will forever campaign for the NHS and to preserve and protect it but sadly I'm not convinced we can fix this one. It's such a terrible shame

I have many doc friends too and I really feel for them. One for example has recently got their first mortgage based as per the norm on his salary to be hit with a considerable pay cut. So in that sense, I don't see how it's wrong to say yes it is to do with money in part. He will be working another few years of promotions to earn what he currently does.

[ICantRememberAnything]

We unfortunately ended up in A&E on Thursday because my son lost his memory. All the doctors we saw were completely brilliant and I cannot fault the care he got.

I support the doctors strike 100%

[Panicmode1]

JudyWilliams - wishing you all the best for tomorrow! How very exciting. I hope you are spending the day being TOTALLY self indulgent - last time for a while (12 years and counting here )

(And sadly, I agree with everything you've said on the NHS - scary times).

[MissTriggs]

judy, is there not protected pay under the new contract? How can your friend be getting a pay cut?

[bananafish81]

Because they're getting rid of banding so most Drs who got increased banding for unsociable hours specialities now get an overall pay cut

My friends are leaving the country in droves

[MissTriggs]

Ahh,realized you have other things on your mind.good luck

[bananafish81]

The pay protection only lasts till 2019 BTW

[MissTriggs]

Right, but it is rather misleading to suggest that anyone will get a paycut isn't it?