to wish there was something I could've done for these children?

[SashaFierce99]

Today I was waiting for a train with my DC. A couple of women were also waiting with a twin pushchair that had a boy and girl in of about two years old. The girl was asleep and had three bruises on her face, she was wearing just a t shirt, thin trousers and no shoes or socks. The boy was wearing the same and his nose, face and arms were bright red - he looked frozen. We were waiti for half hour and they didn't speak to him once. He stared into the middle distance and they occasionally threw a crisp into his pushchair and laughed at him scrabbling to find it He too had several visible bruises.

The other day I saw a mum grabbing her child by the scruff of her neck in the supermarket car park. In the park a few weeks ago I found a three year old wandering alone heading towards the road and when I found the mum she pulled his trousers down and smacked him for running off.

Today's incident really makes me want to cry. If they can be that awful to him in public, I hate to imagine his home life. Aibu to wish there was something you could do to help children in these sorts of situations?

[NowInaMinute]

If it felt wrong to you, then it was wrong. As a child I was beaten frequently and badly and for no reason that I could ever fathom , please do not look away ( no need to be confrontational or put yourself in danger) I understand it is difficult and I have seen it happen and hated myself for not intervening but have decided that I will not see another child be beaten without intervening . Maybe the shock of an intervention will stop it. My mother tells me often that she just didn't know any better. It is upsetting to see and i imagine it's had for you to erase

[Namechangenell]

But there was something you could have done. You could have said something, you could have called the police/community police, you could have got a good look at them, an accurate description and the details of the bus they got on and then forwarded that to the local police station/social services in the hope that they could be traced. I agree that it's a hideous thing to have seen but don't kid yourself that you couldn't have intervened, or at least tried to.

[LeaLeander]

God those poor kids. I hope there is a special hell for disgusting lowlife scum who pump out children they then proceed to neglect and abuse. "scrabbling around for a crisp." That will haunt me for a long, long time.

OP, I know you were probably paralyzed with indecision, most of us would have been, but was there no way you could have spoken to the women about covering the children up? Did they look destitute or just ignorant or ??? Did you know the wait would be half an hour and if so could you have called police?

Just think what their little lives are like in private. It kills me. I treat my dogs 1000x better than that. How can people treat human infants and children so abysmally?

[cornishglos]

I would've listened for names, or struck up a conversation with the twins' carers. I would be really pleasant, and try to gather a bit more about them. If I were still concerned then, II would phone the council or SS. If it is abuse then you owe it to the kids to report what you know. Can you still phone?

[insancerre]

And what exactly would the police do?
Run out and buy them coats?
You really cannot tell that children are being neglected just by a chance encounter on a railway station
There could have been so much more going on that you didn't know about
Plus not everybody has the same standards as you
You post just sounds so judgemental

[cornishglos]

If schools/ doctors/ neighbours/ health visitors etc all register their concern there will be a catalogue/ profile building up of the family which may lead to support being put in place, or where necessary for the safety of the children, intervention. It is important to alert authorities if you genuinely suspect severe abuse.

[merseyside]

You can't possibly get any kind of picture from a couple of seconds encounter on a railway platform!

If they are being neglected then there will be lots of people they meet during their everyday life who would be better placed to tell than you.

The smacking and swearing isn't ideal obviously but it's not a sign of anything on its own.

I think there are some posters on MN with paper thin sensibilities tbh.

[RabbitSaysWoof]

You do sound judgemental and a bit too sensitive tbh.
Dc are different in public, a lot of dc show off, tantrum, try to fuck off from their careers in public and it's ok for the carer to get cross, keep a tighter hand on them just like the car park incident, or ignore paddys. God I have to be so much firmer with mine when we are out because it's boring going to shops and walking pavements home, it brings out the worst behaviours, the park can be over exciting ect. Don't assume that disalpine out is an all day long thing.
The twins did sound bad, but I don't think it's a parents job to be majorly attentive and positive 100% of the day.

[Effiethemonster]

Maybe I'm overly judgemental but I'd say I see cruel behaviour from parents several times per week.

This statement makes me think you're prone to exaggeration and makes me view the opening post differently tbh.

[nippey]

Effiethemonster - I see awful and cruel behaviour often where I live. We live in a town in Kent where poverty is rife. It happens. I don't think you can say OP is exaggerating as you don't know where she lives.
I've called social services and the police but they are busy with higher priority cases and your call just gets added to a list...it's really sad.

[Effiethemonster]

Since when did poverty=abuse??

Now that IS judgemental.

[RubyRoseViolet]

Mersey, 30 mins, not a few seconds. What possible explanation is there for 2 small children without coats, socks or shoes on a freezing cold day sat in buggies??? It's my belief and experience, from working with young children, that many do slip through the net.

[insancerre]

Nippey
Abuse doesn't just happen in poor families you know
Even rich and well educated people abuse their children

[ByThePrickingOfMyThumbs]

that wouldn't make any difference to the kids though would it? In fact it could make things worse for them.

It is illegal to abuse children in this country. What could the police do? Get social services involved for a start.

[nippey]

I know poverty doesn't equal abuse, I didn't mean it like that but can see why it cam across that way in the way I wrote it.
I meant that where I live poverty is rife and social services and other children's services are so stretched by the large amount of demand on their services, they can't help some of the children who really need it.
Sorry if I caused offence, really didn't mean too

[rightguard]

To all those saying op sounds judgmental. I agree. And I think it's a good thing. We need to judge and to be judged. If we keep making excuses for crappy behaviour or parenting then people continue to behave like that and children like those poor little ones in the buggy continue to suffer.

[dilys4trevor]

I think this is an AIBU where you are thinking clearly there is only one answer - it's fine to intervene.

But these are all snapshots. Sometimes parents don't talk to their kids in pushchairs for half an hour. Sometimes kids refuse to wear coats (I had someone tell me I needed a coat for my child once. I explained he screams and tries to run off when I try and put his coat on him so i take it with me and keep offering to him until he accepts. Even now he refuses to wear it until he's really cold).

The bruises are the only thing on this post that is clearly neglect/abuse (even then, could have been a fall). But how exactly would you have intervened? You'd have have gotten into a slanging match with some women. That's all that would have happened.

[Lucylongcat]

My husband works in a budget supermarket in one of the most deprived areas of the country. He says that he sees children being cuffed and horribly sworn at on a daily basis. It's not offensive to link poverty with child abuse, it's reality. Being poorly educated, undernourished, and struggling to make ends meet is going to have an effect on the mental and physical well being of every member of the family. Life expectancy is ten years lower in his supermarket area than in boroughs five miles away. School outcomes are low, social mobility is practically non existent. Health visitor budgets are targeted at this poorer area precisely because spousal and child abuse are so much higher in that region. Drug abuse, and it's related child neglect are of course related to poverty and locality.
No one is saying that being poor makes you neglect children, but there is clearly a link when looking at populations as a whole.
I think there's also an opposite trend, whereby a lot of working class parents have a pride in their children being immaculately turned out, whereas a number of very middle class parents think nothing of sending their children to school in holey socks, because they have no concept of being embarrassed by a lack of funds, but that's a different thread.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

There is more neglect and abuse in areas of higher deprivation, nobody thinks that means being poor = neglectful, don't be daft
Op, I can't think what you could have done for them without a name or address, police won't do a thing unless there is harm going on and neglect is cumulative harm not usually single incidents. Let's just hope try have a health visitor or nursery who will spit them soon

[Seryph]

Actually everyone saying swearing isn't that bad, it is. Yelling at and swearing at a child is verbal abuse. Just as ignoring them or being passive aggressive can be emotional abuse and hitting them is physical abuse and leaving a child outside in the cold with no coat, socks or shoes is neglect.

Yes hold on to your child in a carpark, DO NOT drag them around by the scruff of their neck, hold their hand.

Pulling a child's trousers down and hitting them should be illegal. No ifs no buts, if it's illegal to do it to an adult it should be illegal to do it to a child.

[insancerre]

Bruises are not always inflicted by adults and are not necessarily an indication of abuse
I agree that we all have a duty to look out for the vulnerable, but we can't make assumptions based on a snapshot moment
But to really protect children we need to give the authorities the right information to really make a difference
So if you know children who are being neglected or abused then report it with names, addresses and enough information son that the right people can act on it
Its unrealistic to expect the police or social services to act on a report that anonymous children were underdressed and being ignored except for being given crisps

[maydancer]

Should be but isn't. That's the point

[blackcatwhitewhiskers]

Why is judging such a terrible thing when it involves physical and emotional abuse and neglect?

Why is judging someone who inflicts pain and humiliation on someone younger than them wrong?

[dilys4trevor]

Not convinced there isn't some exaggeration going on here particularly with the use of pejorative language/tone. 'He stared into middle distance the whole time' (or words to that effect). Show me a bored kid in a buggy at a train station for half an hour who doesn't do this.