to wish there was something I could've done for these children?

[SashaFierce99]

Today I was waiting for a train with my DC. A couple of women were also waiting with a twin pushchair that had a boy and girl in of about two years old. The girl was asleep and had three bruises on her face, she was wearing just a t shirt, thin trousers and no shoes or socks. The boy was wearing the same and his nose, face and arms were bright red - he looked frozen. We were waiti for half hour and they didn't speak to him once. He stared into the middle distance and they occasionally threw a crisp into his pushchair and laughed at him scrabbling to find it He too had several visible bruises.

The other day I saw a mum grabbing her child by the scruff of her neck in the supermarket car park. In the park a few weeks ago I found a three year old wandering alone heading towards the road and when I found the mum she pulled his trousers down and smacked him for running off.

Today's incident really makes me want to cry. If they can be that awful to him in public, I hate to imagine his home life. Aibu to wish there was something you could do to help children in these sorts of situations?

[maydancer]

Ask any respectable abuse specialist if domestic abuse is more usual in poor areas.

I would be surprised if they answered anything other than, no we just detect it more

that defies logic! How can they know how much abuse is happening in an area if they can't 'detect' it?

My dd3 was a sock refuser and hated her coat on in the buggy, she used to scream and scream and get really distressed. We used to tuck a thick blanket round her but she used to kick that off too.
and wouldn't the girl have woken up if she were that cold!

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Ask any respectable abuse specialist if domestic abuse is more usual in poor areas.

I would be surprised if they answered anything other than, no we just detect it more.

Same as children. I often see well off parents dressing their kids in ways or doing/not doing things that if the same occured with a far more visible far more radar detected poor parent then they would end up in a list of issues.

However I'm very surprised that this op apparently sees these things so frequently and they are so dreadfully upsetting to her that she does nothing at all. It makes me wonder if a fair bit of differing standards is involved combined with a unhealthy dose of not giving a shit.

[Lj8893]

Some may argue I am living in poverty at the moment, I'm really saddened to think that people will be judging my financial situation as a means of abusing/neglecting my child

[MoonDuke]

My 2 scrabble around for crisps because they love them and rarely have them. They are both skinny too despite eating loads (they take after DH lucky things)

Bruises are common at that age.

The thing that would catch my attention would be lack of socks but only because I don't have sock/shoe refusers.

[Alexa444]

The second two I can't really judge on tbf. You don't know the circumstances. The smack is something my mum would have done to me if running off was a major thing and although I would consider it last resort, it will hurt him a lot less than a car will! Scruffing the kid? What was he doing beforehand? I once babysat kids that I would think nothing of doing this to because if I didn't they would end up getting hurt. They used to fight terribly and a couple of times it resulted in a trip to hospital if no one was close enough to physically and forcefully intervene.

[blackheartsgirl]

My dd3 was a sock refuser and hated her coat on in the buggy, she used to scream and scream and get really distressed. We used to tuck a thick blanket round her but she used to kick that off too. She used to have the odd bruise on her head cos she was a clumsy little bugger and was always tripping over her feet or walking into the door, the stares we used to get, it was mortifying. If anyone had come up to me and challenged me on the lack of appropriate winter clothing they would have got a right earful and then I would have gone home and cried.

[maydancer]

I thought bruises on the foreheads of young children of a young child is usually regarded as accidental occurring when a tot stumbles and falls forwards

[charlieandlola]

They could have literally walked out of a DV situation in the clothes they were in indoors

The bruises may not have been inflicted by the mum
maybe she took her one chance to get out
Maybe a kind word would have been appreciated

[Lynnm63]

Bruises or a lack of shoes are not necessarily abuse. My ds a twin had a bruise in the middle of his forehead for around a month, every time it healed he'd bang it again. i was convinced ss were going to come round. Eldest ds managed to lose at least one shoe or sock or at least it felt like it on every outing. I tended to carry spare socks in my pocket. He hates a coat even now but as he's taller than me I'm sure no ones judging me now when he walks round with a t-shirt in the middle of winter.
However all of those things along with the crisps would have rung alarm bells.

[OvariesBeforeBrovaries]

As others have said, it's possible that the kids point blank refuse socks, shoes and coats. Not outside the realm of possibility.

Bruises aren't always a sign of abuse.

However I think all combined could be reason to voice your concerns - if you had a name, or a firm description. Hopefully if there is abuse happening, they're already on the radar of organisations.

[mygrandchildrenrock]

A call to the police about the children in the buggy, especially in the conditions you describe to us, freezing cold and inadequately dressed, would have prompted some action. An anonymous call would have meant you didn't need to get any more involved than that.
Safeguarding children is everyone's business. A phone call costs nothing.
Neglect is a criteria for child protection to kick in, it's up there with physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexual abuse.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

If you felt intimidated by the women with twins - how do you think a 2 year old feels?

A call to the police will enable them to do their job - help or remove - that's not your decision - but so many people think it's not their job to report -

[hollyisalovelyname]

OP ignore those saying you are judgey.
So what.
Those poor children - If people don't speak out/ act things won't change for the children.
I don't know what you could have done though.
Alerting station staff perhaps.

[dilys4trevor]

Not convinced there isn't some exaggeration going on here particularly with the use of pejorative language/tone. 'He stared into middle distance the whole time' (or words to that effect). Show me a bored kid in a buggy at a train station for half an hour who doesn't do this.

[blackcatwhitewhiskers]

Why is judging such a terrible thing when it involves physical and emotional abuse and neglect?

Why is judging someone who inflicts pain and humiliation on someone younger than them wrong?

[maydancer]

Should be but isn't. That's the point

[insancerre]

Bruises are not always inflicted by adults and are not necessarily an indication of abuse
I agree that we all have a duty to look out for the vulnerable, but we can't make assumptions based on a snapshot moment
But to really protect children we need to give the authorities the right information to really make a difference
So if you know children who are being neglected or abused then report it with names, addresses and enough information son that the right people can act on it
Its unrealistic to expect the police or social services to act on a report that anonymous children were underdressed and being ignored except for being given crisps

[Seryph]

Actually everyone saying swearing isn't that bad, it is. Yelling at and swearing at a child is verbal abuse. Just as ignoring them or being passive aggressive can be emotional abuse and hitting them is physical abuse and leaving a child outside in the cold with no coat, socks or shoes is neglect.

Yes hold on to your child in a carpark, DO NOT drag them around by the scruff of their neck, hold their hand.

Pulling a child's trousers down and hitting them should be illegal. No ifs no buts, if it's illegal to do it to an adult it should be illegal to do it to a child.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

There is more neglect and abuse in areas of higher deprivation, nobody thinks that means being poor = neglectful, don't be daft
Op, I can't think what you could have done for them without a name or address, police won't do a thing unless there is harm going on and neglect is cumulative harm not usually single incidents. Let's just hope try have a health visitor or nursery who will spit them soon

[Lucylongcat]

My husband works in a budget supermarket in one of the most deprived areas of the country. He says that he sees children being cuffed and horribly sworn at on a daily basis. It's not offensive to link poverty with child abuse, it's reality. Being poorly educated, undernourished, and struggling to make ends meet is going to have an effect on the mental and physical well being of every member of the family. Life expectancy is ten years lower in his supermarket area than in boroughs five miles away. School outcomes are low, social mobility is practically non existent. Health visitor budgets are targeted at this poorer area precisely because spousal and child abuse are so much higher in that region. Drug abuse, and it's related child neglect are of course related to poverty and locality.
No one is saying that being poor makes you neglect children, but there is clearly a link when looking at populations as a whole.
I think there's also an opposite trend, whereby a lot of working class parents have a pride in their children being immaculately turned out, whereas a number of very middle class parents think nothing of sending their children to school in holey socks, because they have no concept of being embarrassed by a lack of funds, but that's a different thread.

[dilys4trevor]

I think this is an AIBU where you are thinking clearly there is only one answer - it's fine to intervene.

But these are all snapshots. Sometimes parents don't talk to their kids in pushchairs for half an hour. Sometimes kids refuse to wear coats (I had someone tell me I needed a coat for my child once. I explained he screams and tries to run off when I try and put his coat on him so i take it with me and keep offering to him until he accepts. Even now he refuses to wear it until he's really cold).

The bruises are the only thing on this post that is clearly neglect/abuse (even then, could have been a fall). But how exactly would you have intervened? You'd have have gotten into a slanging match with some women. That's all that would have happened.

[rightguard]

To all those saying op sounds judgmental. I agree. And I think it's a good thing. We need to judge and to be judged. If we keep making excuses for crappy behaviour or parenting then people continue to behave like that and children like those poor little ones in the buggy continue to suffer.

[nippey]

I know poverty doesn't equal abuse, I didn't mean it like that but can see why it cam across that way in the way I wrote it.
I meant that where I live poverty is rife and social services and other children's services are so stretched by the large amount of demand on their services, they can't help some of the children who really need it.
Sorry if I caused offence, really didn't mean too

[ByThePrickingOfMyThumbs]

that wouldn't make any difference to the kids though would it? In fact it could make things worse for them.

It is illegal to abuse children in this country. What could the police do? Get social services involved for a start.

[insancerre]

Nippey
Abuse doesn't just happen in poor families you know
Even rich and well educated people abuse their children