to want to get married?

[Lemond1fficult]

My partner and I have been together 9 years. We live together, and are well-matched, solvent and happy. Except for one thing: We've always agreed we never want to get married. But in the last year, for reasons I don't really understand, I have completely changed my mind.

I'm not one to wait around to be proposed to, so we have discussed it. But my dp hates the idea of a formalised relationship.He wants to throw a big party for our 10th anniversary instead. (To be clear, i want a low-key registry office job and a marriage, not the whole bridal bit). Obvs I wish he would change his mind, but I have no interest in bullying him into something he doesn't want.

So here's the thing: I'm worried it's turning me into a complete nutjob. I had to go to my room at a recent wedding because I got so upset. And because it's making me so crazy, I'm actually considering ending a relationship that is the envy of our friends.

AIBU?

[Sallyingforth]

(We do have wills leaving everything to each other of the unthinkable happened).
That's fine if you are still together when one of you dies.

But a will is not permanent and not a replacement for joint ownership of a property. It can be torn up at any time.

[Lemond1fficult]

Thanks for the perspective, everyone. I do need to discuss it more calmly and thoroughly with the dp before I decide what to do.

Though a lot of people are fixating on our house; I have never paid into it, so I wouldn't ever expect to own it. If we didn't have this good fortune, we'd be paying rent like everyone else we know. And if we separated now or later, i wouldn't feel entitled to take it from him. I guess what I want is that assurance that he feels the same commitment as our married friends.

[NameChange30]

Re your housing situation, people have mentioned it because you are actually quite vulnerable. If he died or if the relationship ended, you would find yourself homeless. (If he died you'd inherit, but you'd probably have to sell the house to pay inheritance tax.) I recommend that you invest the money you would have been paying on mortgage or rent, so that you have a significant back-up if you split up. Ideally you would get a buy-to-let flat that you could move into if you did need to move out of his house.

If I were you I would look into it properly and write down the legal, financial and practical differences between staying unmarried and getting married with a prenup to protect his property in the event of divorce. You will find that there are practical reasons to back up the emotional ones!

Either way you need a financial back up in case you find yourself homeless.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

For me, the single most important thing if I were in your situation is that if one of you becomes seriously ill or dies, the other has no automatic right to be the one making decisions unless you are married. In the UK the NHS might take a common sense approach and treat you as next of kin but this might not be the case overseas. How do you get on with his parents? They are his next of kin while he is unmarried. They could be the ones organising a funeral or making decisions about organ donation, turning off life support and so on, not you.

I know this is a very gloomy thing to talk about, but it's rather on my mind at the moment as two friends in the last month have lost family members who died very suddenly - one was late 40s, one mid 30s. It does happen.

[NameChange30]

I agree the next of kin thing is an issue. Inheritance tax also bothers me. Let's say his house is worth £500k (a low guesstimate based on the fact that it's in London) and he has savings of £25k, meaning his total estate is £525k. The IT threshold is £325k. Anything above that will be taxed at 40%. So if they're not married the OP has to pay £80k in inheritance tax! (Obviously more if I've underestimated the amounts.)

From a purely financial pov I find it hard to see what reason against getting married could justify paying £80k+ in tax that you wouldn't have to pay if you were married.

[ImperialBlether]

I'm another one recommending you buy a buy-to-let. I hate the way so many women in particular are so financially vulnerable in their relationships.

[scarlets]

In the absence of civil partnership for hetero couples, there's no happy medium/compromise here.

Does he truly and genuinely have ethical objections to the institution of marriage? Tbh I'm not sure that all men who "don't believe in marriage" are entirely honest about their "ethical" objections. As a pp said, it's often that they don't want to marry their current girlfriend.

On a positive note, it is good that you're not vulnerable financially.

[NameChange30]

"it's good that you're not vulnerable financially"

What make you draw that conclusion? Given that a few of us have drawn the opposite one!

[DinosaursRoar]

You assume that if you split up, you'd be young enough to buy your own house, agree with teh BTL advice.

My only other concern is DCs, are you certain that's also something you won't change your mind about? Do many of your friends have DCs already or not? If your friends are all getting married now (and I remember that stage!), then in the next 24 months or so, you'll have lots of friends being pregnant and having babies, giving up work,or moving from full time to part time, or still working full time, but never staying out for drinks after work, moving out of London to areas with good schools and more space, to not meeting for lunch because they have to leave on time... Several "never want children" friends changed their minds over those few years that everyone else did it. If weddings have made you feel like you are missing out, a room full of squidgy babies might do the same...

If you really aren't going to have DCs, "what you are missing" is possibly the security marriage gives with DCs, so you won't need that in the way friends who are planning a future with children in it.

Otherwise, try to hold on for another 2 years or so, once the bulk of your friends are married, it stops being something you spend so much time going to, hearing about, it's not part of your life anymore - you might find the desire to "join in" goes. (there was a time in my life when every weekend for 3 months was a wedding or a hen/stag do for me/the now DH - I'm 36 now and haven't been to a wedding for 3 years, I've one to go to next year and then that's it until next generation or people start divorcing and having 2nd rounds)

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Civil partnerships for hetero couples are a red herring. People sometimes seem to confuse marriages with weddings. A simple registry office marriage ceremony is cheap, simple and quick. There need be no fuss, no guests, no wedding presents, none of the endless pointless nonsense over invitations, favours, clothes and so on. I can't see the slightest reason for changing the law to introduce civil partnerships for hetero couples when we already effectively have that. I'd get rid of civil partnerships for gay couples, and then we'd all be treated the same.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

What no one seems to have spotted is that the OP pays her DP rent. She's increasing his equity at her own expense.
If you really are partners that money should be going into a long term investment for you - properly or other investment

OP, I know the house doesn't matter to you, but look at it this way. DP had good fortune such that he doesn't need to pay a rent or mortgage. He didn't need to cut it in half and write you a cheque necessarily, but ever since then he has been your landlord, that is, personally profiting from your relative less fortunate state of having to pay for a place to live.

If he were being fair you would be both living in the house, both paying bills, and both paying into entirely separate investment instruments of your own. He has a house; you should be paying "rent" into some instrument of your own

I know it isn't easy to see things this way as you are nice a person who is not a relationship for the sake of a house, but actually you are really missing out here.

[Lanchester]

I suppose marriage is a sign of commitment for better for worse for richer for poorer .... unfortunately it doesn't always work out as planned though.
Maybe he actually would like to make that commitment but is nervous because of divorces he knows about. Men still tend to lose more financially in divorces because usually in the UK the children end up resident with the mother, and in this case he has actually provided the bulk of the money in the relationship thanks to the inheritance.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

OP isn't paying rent. She says she is paying a share of the bills. Both he and she will be saving money as a result of his inheriting enough to buy a house without a mortgage (or at any rate without needing her to pay towards the mortgage).

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

oh ok I got rent from another poster, apologies my mistake

[Lemond1fficult]

To clarify, Howbadisthat, I don't pay him rent at all. I pay utilities only, as my contribution to the house. I would gladly buy a rental property, but the last time I checked, the deposit would be £40k+ which would wipe out my savings and then some(!). So I'm not totally happy with my financial situation, but that's down to the insanity of property market, not my dp. He's honestly a very good egg. But I do appreciate everyone pointing out the serious implications...

[ImperialBlether]

Yes, but the property market is getting worse each year! The very last thing you want is to be 60 and have him run off with a go-go dancer, leaving you homeless.

You simply have to take this seriously.

The one thing that's certain is that property in London is a good investment. I would recommend you speak to someone in your bank or an independent financial adviser about BTL mortgages and what you could afford and when.

The fact is that you are not equal partners. He holds all the cards. He will always be alright and by not wanting to marry he is purely looking out for himself.

[scarlets]

I assumed when you mentioned savings, that you'd have enough to find a deposit on a flat if you were made homeless. That's why I thought that you were invulnerable financially. The fact that you have modest savings puts you in a precarious position.

If he doesn't want to get tied up with you financially then it's fair enough, but he shouldn't hide behind non-existent ethical objections to marriage, that's just cowardly.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

Thanks Lemon, I did make a mistake when I saw someone else's post and mistook it for one of yours.

However, the house thing might feel like a red herring, but it isn't. If you weren't with a man who already has a house you might be "with" someone else (in any sense, maybe a flat mate or a business partner or a sibling) who wanted to buy one and you could do it together. Trying to get into property in London is really brutal, generally impossible alone, and being without it is brutal too. (sorry but this is the truth - privately renting in London is horrific and going to get worse). If your dp isn't interested in sharing equity in his place with you, you need to get some other plan in place to work out how to get a stake in a place.

(I know someone - she was single, or had occasional boyfriends - who bought a 4 bed place with 3 flatmates and never regretted it. can you work something out?)

The marriage thing - I get why this matters to you and I don't have a solution - so maybe focus on yourself and your future for a bit and see if anything resolves.

If you have no plans to have children you can have an amazingly free life in your middle years - some clever financial decisions now could change everything (sorry, how old are you? Maybe you are 62, in which case, sorry!)

[lakeseamountain]

YANBU.

It seems like you are just seeing the light of how important you are as a person. You want a deep gesture of love and commitment. It is totally reasonable. Marriage is a wonderfully liberating experience, far more liberating than a 'live together' thing.

Marriage is far deeper than a 'live together' relationship - they are NOT the same. The only people who say they are the same or that marriage is just a piece of paper have failed marriages, products of failed marriages or are not married.

If he truly loves you he will marry you and if you truly love yourself you wouldn't demand less. You may find that he may just walk away, and in that case, he wasn't the one for you (however hard that is to admit).

It may come down to why he won't marry you. He may just be a lazy and selfish and marriage is seemed 'too difficult'. It might just be a financial thing for him - he may be just protecting his assets and he just doesn't trust you enough.

I knew a millionaire who refused to marry his girlfriend of 12 years because he didn't 'believe in marriage' - but he told DH that he needed to protect his assets. The did split up. The following year, he married another woman - apparently she was THE one. They are still married 6 years later.

I know another friend who 'didn't believe in marriage' (as her parents had divorced acrimoniously), and she was together with her boyfriend for 8 years. When she refused to marry her bf, he left her - she was devastated. Within two years, both she and her bf had married other people and both were expecting their first kids. Awkwardly enough, I was friends with her ex-bf's wife as well.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

It's stalemate

You want to. He doesn't

One of you will have to change your mind

Could you live:be with dp for another 20yrs and no marriage?

If a wedding more important then dp?

Saying all that if you are married you get rights like a pension if over 47 and £2k fund if he dies (sorry that morbid)

If you do ever ha e kids marry as that protects them

[CPtart]

I hope your contraception is watertight, because a pregnancy would leave you very vulnerable.

[LeanneBattersby]

Hang on. He pays the mortgage for both of you and gets a house? You pay utilities for both of you and you get fuck all?

That's awful.

It's completely normal to not want marriage when you're younger and to then change your mind. When I was 19 I didn't want to get married because I was young and free and didn't want to have my wings clipped. Then as I got into my 20s I got a new perspective on life, wanted to feel a bit more settled, and decided I did want to get married. Same with having kids. Some people don't change their minds as they get older, but many do.

That aside, I see why you feel upset and I would too. It's difficult if you have a good relationship but I think on balance, I'd probably leave. Marriage is different to being in a LTR (for most people) whine is precisely why so many people get married. It's ok to want to get married just because you want to, you don't need a 'good' reason.

How old are you OP?

[NameChange30]

CPtart
"I hope your contraception is watertight, because a pregnancy would leave you very vulnerable."
I was thinking exactly that!