...to want to go away overnight without dh or kids

[belwiz]

Background is: long term friend since uni days having weekend away (posh hotel, spa etc) to celebrate her 40th. Thought it a bit much to leave dh with 3 DCs (8,6 and nearly 2yo) all weekend so said I'd try to go just sat late avo and be back sun lunchtime. DH utterly doesn't get why I 'need' to go, essentially vetoing it ('well, obvs I can't stop you but....and then lists all reasons I shouldn't go.) He thinks I'm being selfish and unreasonable. I think it's not a major ask, given that I've never done this Before in our 8 yrs as parents. Money not an issue. Sadly, he rarely socialises so, unlike lots of couples, there's no scope for repaying the favour. Would really appreciate your thoughts as have lost sight of what's reasonable anymore. Most others going all weekend also have young kids. Apols for ramble.

[AnnieOnnieMouse]

Go, and leave all 4 children home together.

[belwiz]

Update from fri: asked 'd'h to clarify what exactly his objection is to his wife going away for less than 24hrs. Can he not cope with caring for his kids overnight? No, he says, that's not an issue. It is simply that there's nothing to be gained from this from he and kids. So it's not enough that his wife gets a break, some enjoyment? No, apparently I'm selfish to suggest this. I reminded him this isn't a regular thing? He say 'how do i know that? Where will it stop?' In short he appears not to trust that I won't now be away all the time. i made point that I support him in many other ways- eg he has hidden from me thousands of pounds credit card debt, lied to my face, and I have continued to cover all expenses when joint account doesn't stretch eg trips away, Christmas etc. He attempted to justify his right to accrue any debts he wants as long as he pays agreed amount into joint acc monthly. I said he was patronising me. He ended by claiming he had to talk to me in that tone as I was 'being stupid'. I pointed out he was using abusive language and I wouldn't put up with it. Apparently I'm being precious. Etc etc. This one issue has opened a huge fissure in our relationship- he doesn't love me how I thought. He doesn't respect me. I feel nothing for him at the moment - if it weren't for kids I'd be off by now. All thoughts welcome X

[Nanny0gg]

eg he has hidden from me thousands of pounds credit card debt, lied to my face, and I have continued to cover all expenses when joint account doesn't stretch eg trips away, Christmas etc. He attempted to justify his right to accrue any debts he wants as long as he pays agreed amount into joint acc monthly.

I would have thought the huge fissure opened back then...

[ImperialBlether]

Oh you want a night away and he's moaning and yet he's hidden thousands of pounds of debt and lied to you?!!!!

And he can't even hold a proper conversation?

What is it about this selfish bastard that makes you want to stay with him?

[tealoveryum]

I agree with Nanny, it sounds like this fissure has been there a while but it's gone unnoticed and unchallenged until you had it out with him. It sounds like his attitude may have been subtle until you challenged him and saw the truth.

Whatever you decide, and I'm not saying LTB, but also don't stay for the children and put up with things not changing because kids aren't stupid, they get a clue and they know and they feel guilty. Believe me.

These debts, would you be liable for them if he defaulted? That's another worry on top of it all.

You aren't being precious. He has:
lied
deceived
accrued debt taking away from the family
has no intention of stopping accruing debt despite it possibly impacting on your family
left you to make up the shortfall
Is selfish and self absorbed, believing that something needs to be positive for him for him to approve
Called you selfish for wanting a small amount of time for yourself that won't impact on him negatively
He speaks to you as though you are stupid and says you deserve it
He belittles and calls you precious when you call him on it
He doesn't respect you and makes it clear with both words and actions

I think deep down he knows that if you see your friends more, f you get out more, it will only highlight this fissure because you will be confident in challenging him.

[SonjasSister]

Wow! He doesn't think you should go away because you're the only one who will benefit? I'm... just . Goodness you must be upset, that must have been appalling to hear. How upsetting for you

[Kidnapped]

"It is simply that there's nothing to be gained from this from he and kids".

The fact that it benefits you doesn't even register with him. You only exist as an extension of him and your needs simply do not matter.

[SonjasSister]

And as a slightly secodary issue, how sad he doesn't see the chance to have kid/ dad time as beneficial to them anyway

[WineIsMyMainVice]

You should absolutely go!! You deserve it!!
You are far more than just a mother and wife! Enjoy it!

[belwiz]

I am indeed very sad. We have been together for 15 yrs, married for 10. Money and my friends have always been the divisive issues for us. We would have it out, things would blow over and we'd tick along for another while, sometimes a couple of years. But I am despairing at the thought of years ahead a) having to 'manage' his paranoia about my friendships taking away from his domestic life and b) the unending cycle of credit card, loan to consolidate, then more cards. Believe it or not, he is an excellent dad to the older two Dc, v hands on, does lots of housework too. We share a lot of good times in past too. Am thinking, rather than seek to throw in the towel imminently, to suggest couple counselling. No exp of this and would love to know your views on whether u think there's hope this might result in some acknowledgement in his part of his unacceptable behaviour. I.e does the counsellor ever add their perspective or is it purely a 'managed' conversation? I suspect the latter but I think he needs to hear from a third party how off the mark he is as at the moment he is 100% convinced he is not the problem and I am. Sigh ....

[Thelwell]

Op. I say stick to your guns and go...sounds like you need some breathing space more than ever.

BTW your dh might care to see that a happy, fulfilled and socially balanced mother is of vast importance to the kids.

Whether it benefits him or not depends purely on how much he values you as a human

Good luck.

[HooseRice]

Please go for the whole weekend and not just the one night.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"i made point that I support him in many other ways- eg he has hidden from me thousands of pounds credit card debt, lied to my face, and I have continued to cover all expenses when joint account doesn't stretch eg trips away, Christmas etc. He attempted to justify his right to accrue any debts he wants as long as he pays agreed amount into joint acc monthly."
Oh my giddy aunt . How did he run up these debts? ANd how dare he justify it!

"This one issue has opened a huge fissure in our relationship"
I have to agree with Nanny0gg, that fissure was already open (due to his running up debts, lying to your face, having to cover joint expenses from your personal funds) - but somehow, you were overlooking it. Why?

"he doesn't love me how I thought. He doesn't respect me. I feel nothing for him at the moment - if it weren't for kids I'd be off by now. All thoughts welcome X"
How did you think he loved you? Or do you mean you did think he loved you and now you don't? No , he doesn't respect you. And I don't think 'staying together for the kids' works - not for the parents and definitely not for the kids.

My thoughts - go away for this weekend with your friend. Use the time to sort out your feelings and thoughts, talk them through with your friend who presumably you trust, and come back home with a plan for you and your children, which may or may not include him.

So sorry OP. But the fissure was already open, all this incident has done is bring it in to the light.

[tealoveryum]

The only issue with counselling OP is that both of you have to want to do it and work for your relationship. He's effectively told you he isn't bothered by continuing with spending and disrespecting.

It help a couple I know greatly but they both were 100% on board and really worked at communication. Will you husband do this?

It might be worth counselling on your own, the fact he calls you stupid and talks down to you may mean couples counselling isn't the best for you.

[BalthazarImpresario]

Go for the whole weekend. I go away for three nights every year with my friends, I call the family once each day and spend the rest of my time having a fine time.
He needs to learn that wife/mother is not all of you. The sooner he realises that indulging yourself is important and it doesn't need to have anything to do with him/kids the better.

[belwiz]

Thanks so much for your thoughts- my head is all over to place and I couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything that's been said and done. In response to Where you left it, the debts were gradually accrued, from what I can see, simply by continuing to shop as though he were still a bachelor- nice clothes, the odd gadget, high-fees gym, generally just whatever he fancies. I have tackled him on this many, many times. He thinks I'm being puritanical and have no right to concern myself with his personal finances beyond our joint obligations.
On the question of his love, bizarrely I have no doubt that he loves me - but I know now that this is laden with conditions to do with keeping everything the way he wants it. I'm generally a laid back, easygoing person therefore don't find it hard to let someone have their way on the trivial matters but when it comes to the kids' wellbeing I draw the line. I don't care much if I have to pay extra to fund holidays etc as I simply want the enjoyment without the confrontation. It's not that- it is the ticking time bomb of all those debts and what happens to us if he loses his job or falls ill, for example.
Counselling, either jointly or solo, is the only constructive thing I can think to do. I don't want to regret not trying. I am so tired with work and kids that I don't have the stomach for a messy fight. Who does, I suppose? I do concede I've buried my head in the sand in last while - with a baby to look after, sleepless nights, crazy work, I've just been trying to keep things going and postponing this sort of scenario. I think I probably sound a bit weak but it's more a matter of feeling there's literally no time for us to fall apart right now.

[Chocolatteaddict1]

Hi op,

It sounds as he gets a really good deal being with you. The deal isn't so good in you though.

Councilling is a step forward from getting out of the position your in now. Anything is an improvement - and if it doesn't work your reladtionship is already under the spot light for you to see what is and what isnt working.

My best friend has gradually fell out of love with her Dh because of similar stuff, debt accrued (she had to bale him out) she kept everybody afloat and he always made her feel shit if she wanted time out out. She has been with him over a decade. He is not a bad bloke The worst thing is though she has no plans to leave for quite a while yet as she can't afford the child care or splitting the house. So she is just sticking it out

[belwiz]

Hi Chocolate addict, thanks for your reply. Your friend's set-up sounds really sad, but I can see how that might seem like the most feasible option in practical terms. It's the trickle-down effect of all that tension on the kids that I want to avoid. But I don't want to move them out of their home since birth and start again either.

[cansu]

Whatever you decide to do about your relationship, I would be clear from this point onwards that you disagree with the drama about you going out and that you will be doing things that you enjoy from now on. Put a calendar up, write on the things you will be doing and do them. I now do this. My partner hates it when I go out but is getting better at sucking it up now. It is not selfish to have a social life or a hobby unless it is excessively time consuming. I think this is probably a moment where you need to think carefully about how you respond as giving in to keep the peace will send your h the message that he is right and that if he makes enough fuss you will back down to maintain a truce. the credit cards are a bigger issue. If you do split these debts could become your joint debts. I would look into this.

[longdiling]

Bloody hell Op, you poor thing. How does his gym membership and clothes benefit you and the kids?! He seems entirely unable to see things from your point of view. He doesn't even have any self awareness. Puritanical is exactly what sprung to mind about his attitude to you going away. His debts actively harm you and the kids in that they put you in a perilous position, your weekend away does not. I'm not sure where you go from here either. His lack of socialising means he probably doesn't have any perspective on other people's families and relationships.

Hold on to your anger, it sounds like you need to make some big changes.

[TondelayaDellaVentamiglia]

so basically as long as he has what he wants ...gym/clothes/boys toys and YOU sweeping up his finanacial mess he is happy and loves you


like chocolateaddict says.....he is really on a good thing here

gosh how rude of you to rock his very well equipped boat by wanting to have your own little jaunt.

[ChickensRideWest]

OP I think counselling is the only thing you can do if you want to stay in this marriage.

My DH is the same re: the finances. I've bailed him out of a lot of debt which I found out about just after we got married. He was spiteful and tried to blame his debt on my being the breadwinner as emasculating. fuck off nobby.

I've also sacrificed my social life and have no friends now. My last night out was 4 years ago. Weirdly DH wouldn't kick up a fuss about my going out but even though I earn the most and work in a career etc his job comes first to him and he just assumes I can pick up the childcare slack when some 'disaster' happens in work as it frequently does. I'm miserable and lonely. Don't end up like me OP.

[ChickensRideWest]

He definitely is onto a winner here. I often say to DH when I'm worn down that I'm his meal ticket. He blusters and talks to me like a pompous arse just like his 'D'F too.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"the debts were gradually accrued"
Oh dear. So it involves living beyond his means as a matter of habit. That's actually harder to deal with than e.g. an expensive hobby that can be set aside for a while. His spending habits are ingrained and he sees no reason to change because he can just ignore the debt. Rather indicative of his life view too. Continue doing something which logically cannot continue indefinitely (because eventually you have to pay the bill/be divorced) but pretend to yourself and those around you that this is the only way to be. That - actually worries me. It's just a little bit detached from reality.

"He thinks I'm being puritanical and have no right to concern myself with his personal finances beyond our joint obligations."
I'm not particularly up on legal stuff, but as his spouse can you be held liable for his debts? I don't know, but in your shoes I'd be finding out. Plus, since you're having to supplement the joint account for holidays and stuff - legitimate joint expenses - I do not see how he is actually meeting joint obligations. I think his monthly contribution needs to be upped.

"I don't want to regret not trying."
Sadly,this is a phrase oft-seen on MN. Often several years down the line from yourself, when the OP has tried everything and it still hasn't worked. I don't think enough account is taken of the emotional cost of 'trying'. Or that the cost is borne not just by the embattled parent, but also by their children. Sometimes, 'trying' is akin to throwing good money after bad. Be sure in yourself that there is a chance of success before 'trying'. There is no shame in looking at a situation dispassionately and assessing it as a no-hoper. Only you can assess the possibility of fixing this.


"But I don't want to move them out of their home since birth and start again either."
Why do you assume you'd be the one moving out? Surely he wouldn't want that for his children either?