Help! I've had a massive row with my family and I need to know if IABU

[noodlesareyummy]

I need help here. My cousin and I are very close, he's like a brother to me. Lets call his wife my CiL, we also generally get on incredibly well and are very close (Xmas, birthdays together etc) she says we're sisters - that sort of close. Anyway I have a DD 2 and a DS 4m. C & CiL were there for us so much when DD was born and little and are really close to her too, she adores them. Since they had a DD of their own (just 10mths old) I noticed something about my CiL- she shouts and snaps at her own DD constantly. And I mean shouts loudly. The kid is as good as gold, never makes a peep, not grabby or anything, CiL has just always seemed really impatient with her. Then she started on my DD. Don't get me wrong I'm not a picture of patience 100% of the time but I do try to practice gentle parenting. DD is very clever and very spirited, not violent or nasty just on the go all day every day, knows what she wants, thinks she's 22...that kind of spirited. She's exactly like me and I was shouted at and smacked regularly as a child. It didn't work and simply resulted in an 18 year power struggle between my mum and I until I left for uni with a sigh of relief and some quite negative feelings about my parents. I don't want that for my daughter and I. So CiL comes round with C the other day to stay the weekend. My DD is wandering round, playing with her toys and CiL is on her case immediately, "DD be careful of My DD!" "DD SHARE that" "DD, play NICELY please" "DD say thank you to my DD". I was so over it that I took DD to another room to play as she couldn't do anything without getting barked at. CiL came in to the room we were in and carried on at my DD in the same manner "be CAREFUL my DD is just a baby!" (Walking past her not even close to her) "don't climb on that!" (A beanbag) Etc etc. Again I took DD away, I was really angry by this point but not saying anything. Then my C came in and says that CiL had told him I was being moody and rude and that they were leaving. A row erupted where I basically said "stop disciplining her when she's not doing anything" and they stormed out. They haven't spoken to me since. I sent them a long message explaining about gentle parenting and what I was thinking when I was appearing moody. Nothing. Won't answer my calls either.
Please help! Am I in the wrong here? I'm bewildered!

[NeverNic]

Though if she's not then I'm not sure what your Cil would be shouting for.

[Sparklingbrook]

If I was sent that email I wouldn't answer your calls either.

It does seem there is more to this than you have said OP.

[HortonWho]

Were those examples of her shouting? And when she did shout, what was it?

WATCH OUT! LOOK OUT! Mind you don't step on the baby!
Or
Shut up!

Different type of shouting

[knittingwithnettles]

YANBU, but it might be that your CIL is suffering from PND and very stressed? I can remember being hypersensitive to other children's "loutish" behaviour when I had a much smaller child, although I do also remember being shocked at how rude and snappy people were to their toddlers when I had an older child and had forgotten what it was like to have one myself.. Point being that when you actually have a toddler, you often don't notice just how brusque and shouty you are getting. I think people get very confused about boundary setting and think they are being firm and authoritative when actually they are being HORRID to their poor children.

I remember taking ds2 to visit a cousin who prided herself on her child friendly house, and then proceeded to tell him off for not tidying up the train track (he was 3) When I mildly protested he had only just taken it out of the box, she screamed at me that I shouldn't tell her the rules of her own house. She was stressed over her life in general: that is why she screamed at me, but I still remember my bewilderment at her utter rigidity (she had younger and older children) and the way she made my ds2 feel so unwelcome.

I have had to tell my own dSis off for being quite abrasive to my elder son, singling him out not to have sugary cereal, because it was unhealthy and he needed to lose weight (her words), telling him he was clumsy and a klutz (he is dyspraxic). In turn she has told ME off for being too curt with my daughter, who she said was a sensitive soul. So I suppose, it is fair enough to criticise the "styles" of people nearest and dearest to you, if we/they don;t tell us these things who will?

On balance though I think your CIL sounds extremely unhinged..and your dd sounds entirely normal, and your parenting style excellent. Which means you need to support her and be nice to her because she is clearly under strain

[bakeoffcake]

CIL sounds dreadful. She shouts at a 10mth old baby?

I would have told her straight away not to shout at my own child, as soon as she started. You have every right to do that.

If they won't talk to you there's nothing you can do. You will be spared years of stress though, because CILs behaviour won't change overnight.

[knittingwithnettles]

And you have two babies, so I think you are allowed to have opinions about what is safe or not safe in your dd's behaviour towards a 10 month old.

I think you should send her an conciliatory email saying you really like seeing her and her dd, and so happy to think they are all going to grow up together without apologising in the slightest for your dd's or your behaviour, but just showing the olive branch so to speak. That is how it tends to be with my DSis, we move on quickly although we still have "opinions" which are deep seated (and possibly hurtful to the other)

[OTheHugeManatee]

YWbothBU. They are doubtless very PFB and your 'spirited' 2yo is just as doubtless a total nightmare.

I also think part of what's escalating this for you is that her parenting style reminded you of your own fractious dynamic with your parents so set you on edge.

[DoJo]

I think you should have addressed it when she first started shouting at your daughter rather than going into a different room and building up a head of steam. It sounds like you have different parenting styles, and without knowing what is going on in her mind, it's impossible to know whether she is reacting to what she perceives as genuine threats to her daughter or something that is borne out of anxiety, insecurity or another internal problem that is making her so angry/on edge/stressed.
Either way, for someone who you describe as 'like a sister', I don't think your approach was particularly helpful - when I read your first couple of paragraphs, I assumed that the row had been prompted by an attempt on your part to talk to her about what was making her feel so stressed, not 'a row' which seems to have been instigated by fairly odd and unhelpful behaviour on your part.
Surely it would have been more reasonable to sit her down and see if you could help her rather than allowing this situation to fester. Maybe if you tried apologising for blowing up she would be more receptive.

[witsender]

That would have driven me mad too. Dunno about the email without seeing it. So Yanbu from me really. I wouldn't be angry as such, but neither would I be apologetic. She sounds nervous and uncertain tbh...scared. any chance of pnd?

[lunar1]

You email makes you the unreasonable one! I know two people who follow gentle parenting. Their children are the worst behaved I have ever seen, I've changed swimming lessons for my dc just to avoid one of the families.

[kvmum]

You just have different parenting styles and need to meet in the middle, for this to work as a friendship, going forward. I did a child-swap with a friend and I am quite anxious, she is quite chilled. We had to have some honest talks about it. Her kids are very creative but wild as hell. Mine are very effective but follow the rules. I learn from watching her parent. Good luck, leave it a while before you get in touch with her again and start by acknowledging you are both right xx

[jacks365]

Thing that gets me is that those comments you quote are not really shouty comments, firm tone of voice maybe so I am wondering how much is just completely different parenting styles and whether she could easily come on here and say her cil never disciplines her child or encourages her to share with other children. I think you overstepped the line with the email but I also think she overstepped the line when she started following you round the house

[Muskateersmummy]

I'm all for the gentle parenting but, it still means you have to parent. If it was me, and I could see that cil was a bit anxious about dd and her 10 mth old, I would have after the first or second word from cil (if not before) brought my dd to me, spoken quietly and firmly to tell her that 10mth is still very small and she needs to play gently.

This would have laid the rules to your dd gently, and given your cil some peace of mind that you are indeed watching the situation. The huffing off would have come across moody and not helpful.

It's NU to not want your child told off like that when you don't parent that way, I would hate it. But you needed to do more to prevent the escalation of the situation IMO.

I think apologises are needed on both sides. Maybe message your C in a few days and apologise.

[diddl]

You really should have picked her up on it straight away.

So you finally told her, crossly, they left.

That might at some point have been salvagable.

But you then sent an email about gentle parenting.

That really was too much imo.

I probably wouldn't answer your calls again.

Ever!

[kvmum]

Sensible advice

[coolaschmoola]

My SIL is like this with my DD who is 18 months older than her DS. It's really irritating watching someone tell your child off for simply being a child of their age.

They have just had their second DS - same age gap between their two as between my DD and their PFB DS... I'm waiting for karma now - it's going to be interesting to see if she has such high expectations of her DS1 around her DS2 as she has had with my DD.

[MintChocAddict]

What's gentle parenting???

Have I missed a thing? Does it just means not shouting at your kids or is there more to it? Baffled.

[noodlesareyummy]

Thanks for the reality check, I really needed this! You're all right of course, I totally huffed off and was telling myself I was "removing myself from the situation to avoid an argument". Looking at it through your eyes really helps- I was of course being passive aggressive. And yes, I guess rather than the intended "this is why I don't shout" message I guess the gentle parenting explanation would come across as completely patronising. And make me sound like a complete hippy knob. Ah well. I'm big on discipline, just not through shouting or snapping impatiently. Nooooo shoes inside and no climbing on furniture are EVER allowed, DD definitely not a brat or in any way out of control (but as you say, you'll never know because no one thinks theirs is!) and CiL could think she's the devil!!
I needed this reality check, I'll try not to be such a passive aggressive tw*t in future!

[Muskateersmummy]

mintchoc I'm assuming that gentle parenting is along a similar vein to positive parenting.

We positive parent (most of the time by no means perfect !), in essence we try not to shout, to speak calmly but firmly. To encourage her to solve problems and teach by learning consequences to her actions (like if you break something you clear it up etc) rather than punishments (like time out, removing toys etc). It sounds a bit hippy and permissive but actually it's worked really well with our dd so far and has allowed us to set boundaries, and resolve arguments, tantrums etc without constant don't do that, no, and shouting.

[knittingwithnettles]

well, I think if you take your shoes off, and it's a sofa (Not a bookcase or a chest of drawers or a kitchen table or a tippy chair) climbing on furniture is quite fun I used to encourage it. We used to play a lovely game where you tried to get round the room without touching the floor I'm all for furniture being strong and functional. Toddlers love to climb. It's monkey instinct to escape from predators.

[noodlesareyummy]

manatee I reckon you hit the nail on the head there, it reminds me of EXACTLY how my mum used to bark and snap at me constantly (and make me feel like I was a problem child (I was a straight A student who never even kissed a boy til I was 16!)) and it's exactly what I'm trying to avoid doing with DD.
And to the commenters who said they'd sit back and wait for her DD to become a toddler - yes! She'll soon
learn that if you shout at a toddler for every little thing you'd literally be shouting all day...and night.
She's not got PND (unless she's really good at hiding it), she's more an "authority on parenting" and buys me many books on the topic.

[Muskateersmummy]

If she buys you books on the topic of parenting I would feel less guilty about the email tbh! I might indeed return the favour with a book on positive parenting .... But that may not resolve the friendship issue