Help! I've had a massive row with my family and I need to know if IABU

[noodlesareyummy]

I need help here. My cousin and I are very close, he's like a brother to me. Lets call his wife my CiL, we also generally get on incredibly well and are very close (Xmas, birthdays together etc) she says we're sisters - that sort of close. Anyway I have a DD 2 and a DS 4m. C & CiL were there for us so much when DD was born and little and are really close to her too, she adores them. Since they had a DD of their own (just 10mths old) I noticed something about my CiL- she shouts and snaps at her own DD constantly. And I mean shouts loudly. The kid is as good as gold, never makes a peep, not grabby or anything, CiL has just always seemed really impatient with her. Then she started on my DD. Don't get me wrong I'm not a picture of patience 100% of the time but I do try to practice gentle parenting. DD is very clever and very spirited, not violent or nasty just on the go all day every day, knows what she wants, thinks she's 22...that kind of spirited. She's exactly like me and I was shouted at and smacked regularly as a child. It didn't work and simply resulted in an 18 year power struggle between my mum and I until I left for uni with a sigh of relief and some quite negative feelings about my parents. I don't want that for my daughter and I. So CiL comes round with C the other day to stay the weekend. My DD is wandering round, playing with her toys and CiL is on her case immediately, "DD be careful of My DD!" "DD SHARE that" "DD, play NICELY please" "DD say thank you to my DD". I was so over it that I took DD to another room to play as she couldn't do anything without getting barked at. CiL came in to the room we were in and carried on at my DD in the same manner "be CAREFUL my DD is just a baby!" (Walking past her not even close to her) "don't climb on that!" (A beanbag) Etc etc. Again I took DD away, I was really angry by this point but not saying anything. Then my C came in and says that CiL had told him I was being moody and rude and that they were leaving. A row erupted where I basically said "stop disciplining her when she's not doing anything" and they stormed out. They haven't spoken to me since. I sent them a long message explaining about gentle parenting and what I was thinking when I was appearing moody. Nothing. Won't answer my calls either.
Please help! Am I in the wrong here? I'm bewildered!

[Aeroflotgirl]

I don't think you were being unreasonable at all, that sort of thing would have really put my ds 4 on edge and made him feel bad. When you left quite rightly, for another room, she should not have followed you, and it should have been at that point, when she followed and started the same again, that you should have said something. It is good that you sent her a message, but I would have left out the gentle parenting. I would definitely keep a distance, until their pfb baby is that bit older.

[redexpat]

Yeah I think this is the crux of the matter I was really angry by this point but not saying anything. That's how conflict escalates. But you'll know for next time. Also she probably is knackered which makes everything worse.

[LaurieLemons]

I think she was definitely overstepping the mark but I'm confused as to why you couldn't just say leave her alone, especially if you are so close.

[Myredcardigan]

Everything was def calmer when I just had one. DC2 is like 4 on her own! Maybe if DH was around more in the evenings as the 1:4 is probably spreading attention out too thinly more stress at the moment as DD1 has just taken a very competitive 11+ and we're waiting for results. DC1 is finding his senior school workload heavy and I'm under pressure at work too plus my almost 2yr old is still up twice a night so exhaustion and stress is making me a bit snappier I guess. I want it to be better though.

[Muskateersmummy]

It's not easy that's for sure. There are times that I loose my rag (have done this weekend due to lack of sleep and a particularly whiney over tired poorly toddler!) but I think it makes most of the time calmer

[Myredcardigan]

Oh I've definitely stuck with the options and I definitely still follow through with consequences such as lights out at 8 rather than 9 for the 13yr old or reduction in pocket money or no visit to the park or playcentre for the 4yr old if he consistently makes bad choices. Always warned rather than issued in anger. Always explained that making the wrong choice will result in something they won't like. I think it's just lack of time from the 5.30 getting in until bath and bed coupled with teenage hormones and usual under 5s behaviour.

[Myredcardigan]

DisappointedOne, thanks for replying. I certainly pick my battles otherwise id just be a shouty fishwife. We live in a very cold part of the country so PJs are a must really. Of course I told her the clothes in the shower are unacceptable but at 22mths she just giggles and runs off. I thinks it's just a time thing; I from work at 5.30, feed them then reading and phonics with 4yr old which is of course interrupted by the little one constantly. Then trying to supervise the HW of an almost 13yrs old and an almost 11yr old and reminding them that rugby kit cannot be left on the bedroom floor esp when soaking and all that sort of stuff. 2nights a wk packing 3 back in the car to pick the older one up from sports makes them and me cranky. DH works away a lot and Grandparents all dead unfortunately.
I'd like to be more patient. I know how to do it-I did do it but just feeling overwhelmed and wondering how to get back into a more positive frame of mind. (Maybe it's having a teenager and an almost teenager) thanks though.

[Phineyj]

I have a somewhat similar relationship with my DSis and I would suggest taking the drama out of different styles by meeting up in neutral public places, where there is plenty for everyone to do (we find the big London museums are ideal; play farms are good too). YWNBU but if these rows tend to erupt in certain situations - I can tell you I am never ever again agreeing to a holiday houseshare, not does staying at each other's house go well - there are other ways to maintain the relationship. I wish I had taken this advice myself as our relationship is now somewhat damaged by years of shouting and storming off! (Mostly DSis but sometimes me )

[Muskateersmummy]

I honestly can't answer how it works for families with multiple children because we only have 1.

I agree with disappointed about picking your battles. Also I find these explainations actually don't take that long, not much longer than shouting and battling tbh, and the longer we practice PP/GP the less time the explainations take, dd is now used to us giving her options, so the times she refuses those options are rare.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I think you've both been unreasonable but I see that you've already acknowledged your part in it! well done for doing that.

I think that she shouldn't be "on" your DD like she has been, it's not her place, especially not in your DD's own home - how rude! Of course she's concerned about the safety of her PFB, but that's for her to manage by moving her DD, or asking your DD to be careful/ share (with a 10mo?!) etc., not by shouting at her!

But the biggest problem is your difference in parenting styles; not anything wrong with GP if it works, but clearly your CIL sees things differently. And as has been said, her shouting at your DD is obviously triggering bad memories for you.

I hope that you can work it out - but perhaps it might need a bit more time, until her DD is more mobile and a bit harder to manage, before spending too much time together again.

Good luck with it all - family dynamics are hard enough to deal with, without different parenting styles being thrown into the mix!

[TheDowagerCuntess]

I would not take kindly to someone coming into my house and relentlessly getting on my kids' case for normal pre-school behaviour. I totally sympathise.

We also try to be as positive as possible with our two, and yes of course there are times when my patience is pushed to the limit, but gentle/positive parenting (if we have to put a label on it) works really well for us, too.

No advice - I would just give them a bit of space. I think your CIL lacks some serious self-awareness if she wants to paint herself as the victim in this exchange.

[noodlesareyummy]

Allisgood what GP is to me is a set of tools to enable me to provide discipline to my kids without the need for hitting, shouting or threats. It means I don't get angry at them and they don't get angry at me. It has worked amazingly well for DD and I and I've been doing it since I discovered it when she was just months old. Don't get me wrong there have been a few trips back home due to say not holding hands when necessary or crawling under the table in restaurants, but the next time she's usually the one saying to me "sit on my bottom and eat my dinner" or "hold hands cars are very dangerous". It might not work at all on my DS but on her it's the perfect thing. If I were to shout at her she'd just ignore everything I said. And why wouldn't she? If someone shouted at me and threatened me every day I'd be having absolutely none of it!

[DisappointedOne]

Myred such is my commitment to gentle parenting I'm only having 1 child.

But in response to your questions I'd say pick your battles. Does your 4 year old really need to wear PJs? Why? My DD (5) often prefers to sleep naked and I can think of no reason that she shouldn't so it's not something we argue about. Other things, like keeping a commitment to an activity that's been paid for or reading her school reading book aren't so negotiable so the boundary is set and managed.

Surely you had time to explain clearly to your child why putting her clothes in the shower wasn't on, that it created a mess/more work etc? You could get her involved in the clean up as a good demonstration of the impact it has, or make clear what you couldn't do because she did that. (I take the view that if they know they shouldn't do it its worse than if they don't. When DD cut her own hair at 2 she didn't know any better. Now at 5 she does (and to be frank, so should her bloody teacher! ) so time was made for a clear discussion about that.

[Italiangreyhound]

YANBU, it sounds a horrible situation. It may be better in future to try and a chat when the kids are in bed, but in this case she confuted you by telling her husband you were being off (which it does not sound like you were!).

[Myredcardigan]

Genuine question, not being goady but how does the positive parenting work when you have 4? I try to be chilled but I certainly don't have time for long winded explanations and calm rational discussions when my 4yr old won't put PJs on and my 2yr old has emptied the drawer of most of her clothes, dumped them in the shower and used the toddler toilet step to reach the 'on' button on the wall outside the shower to switch it on thus soaking all her clothes (this happened 3wks ago.) Anothef evening whilst I was trying to convince her older brother that a tidy bedroom was more conducive to study (he's 12!) she made a step, got all the toothbrushes and started cleaning the loo with them.

I genuinely would love to be more positive and less shouty and when I just had ds1, it really was like that, pretty serene in fact as he was a joy but now, I seem unable to stick to a positive approach.

[pandarific]

Meh, CIL sounds a pain in the arse. YWNBU, you did nothing wrong.

[Ambroxide]

I do think you sound nice, btw, OP, and you certainly are entirely within your rights to explain that parents do different things with different children and that is perfectly OK. You have been v nice on this thread so I doubt you were awful to the cousins.

[Ambroxide]

I used to shout at my 10 month old occasionally. It was when she was in a phase of pulling all the tissues out of the box every time she encountered one. So yes, I used to yell 'Noooooooo, stoppit!' quite loudly at her every time she started. It was fine. She thought it was kind of funny and it stopped her doing it and I found it cathartic. Win win. Shouting, as long as not terrifying, is actually not always awful. Even 10 month olds are capable of recognising when they have Gone Too Far on occasion. DD now v well behaved 9 year old, not noticeably scarred and certainly not 'spirited' which is always always code for 'bloody awful'.

[lostinmiddlemarch]

And you have been very gracious on this thread, you sound extra nice!

[lostinmiddlemarch]

I don't think you sound unreasonable at all. If she's always giving you books on parenting, it seems like her parenting boundaries are blurred, in which case this was waiting to happen.

I would leave it for a little while and see if she's cooled off and is ready to be friends.

Sadly it's not unusual for a friendship dynamic to completely alter when children arrive. It's all so high stakes at the beginning, too.

[SquidgeyMidgey]

My guess would be she's struggling with lack of sleep, losing her identity to motherhood, PND, or something along those lines. Maybe her relationship isn't so great behind closed doors. No one sets out to shout at a baby, i would think something's up.

[Phalenopsisgirl]

No you shouldn't let things fester but many of us do. I am the worlds worst at allowing something to build so that when I eventually blow my behaviour seems totally disproportionate to the trigger but of course it was just the final straw. I also know that it is a desire not to offend or cause confrontation that can lead to keeping things internalised so it doesn't make you bad, in many ways the opposite. It sounds like cil wasn't very tuned in to you and how you deal with things, it really is one of those 6 of one type scenarios. You weren't completely wrong, neither was she. I'm sure it will blow over.

[Allisgood1]

Can you define "gentle parenting" in terms of what it means for you?

[JellyTotCat]

She keeps giving you parenting books? Your whatsapp message sounds ok.

[Hissy]

She shouts at a 10m old?

Fuck her...

Ok bit harsh, but she has it so wrong, and to discipline your dd when it's really not needed, she must have some kind of death wish