To be gobsmacked by this article?

[Babycham1979]

So, I promised myself I'd stop reading the Guardian, but I couldn't resist. Today, I found myself reading this gem;

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/08/black-women-mental-health-high-rates-depression-anxiety

Now, the distparities in mental health prevalnce and treatment among different social and ethnic groups are serious, and desperately need to be addressed. However, is it just me, or are these not just examples of how to be a normal grown-up of any sex or colour!? More Guardian identitiy politics bullshit!


Zoe, a 27-year-old pharmacist, wrote: “I am treated like I’m odd just for being myself and doing the things I like to do. I’m always viewed through the eyes of people’s narrow-minded expectations.”

Or, "Why do I have to change who I am so that people don’t find me intimidating or aggressive?” wrote Michelle, a 27-year-old teacher. “It’s tiring to have to always conform to get ahead.”

And, “I can’t embrace who I am, fully,” typed Grace, a 24-year-old PA. “I need to make sure people are always comfortable with me.”

[Vixxfacee]

Op yabu and have no clue.

[Jesabel]

sound like the complaints of three people who are struggling to fit in.
Isn't that the point? That black women are more likely to suffer mental health issues because they are struggling to fit in due to the prejudices they face?

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

I thinks its a fair article actually, FFS its not easy to be a black women in modern society, and especially working in "business" which is a very white dominated environment

and those stereotypes DO exists- they just do

I cant just imagine some of the stuff they describe

YABU

[larazopf]

I have to agree with OP. I could have written any of the statements at various points in my life. I am white. I think it's just a normal part of being a human being, most people will experience feeling feel odd or out of place or struggle to fit in and put on some sort of mask to adapt to other people's expect ions.

On a very different note though, isn't it racist of the Guardian to write a piece on Black people with mental health? I believe it could reinforce stereotypes.

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

fuck me OP, you actually did a dissertation on this topic?

your views are depressing

[MilleniumTalcum]

Only if you take them our of context. The overall message read, to me, like it was about how social issues might play a part in the higher rates. It's not outrageous or anything.

[AdrenalineFudge]

Babycham, I really think you have a narrow minded view of the world. The angry black woman seen as intimidating or aggressive is not a 'quirk' of sorts, it's a well-documented phenomenon. It is difficult for a white person to view society through the eyes of a black person simply because they don't have to and many things ethnic minorities worry about wouldn't even occur to a white person.

And considering you've actually done some research in this field I'm astonished at your narrow view and I'd even go so far as to say you've missed the point spectacularly.

[MilleniumTalcum]

Just because you have felt simarlarly does not mean you felt it at the same depth. Everyone feels like that once or twice but it's usually just a feeling. Dealing with issues that come from being a different ethnicity are another kettle of fish.

[AdrenalineFudge]

Your view reminds me of those types that have taken a gap year in Africa and are now feel just so clued up on the world and 'oh just so cultured' to boot.

[MilleniumTalcum]

To be honest I think white people are often blind to the crap minorities put up with on a low level in everyday situations. Privilege and all that. I'm white but fully accept that. It's not dissimilar to gender issues in that sense. If it's ingrained you don't always realize it's an issue because it doesn't affect you

[Babycham1979]

Adrenaline, you're not reading what I wrote in that case. My main point was that this is an important issue that is made a mockery of by a derisory article. I didn't claim to be an expert, having done a mickey mouse masters, but was asked by a poster whether I'd done any research on the issue myself. I have.

I don't profess to be a 'gap yah' expert, although I have lived and worked as an ethnic minority in a number of Asian countries, so would like to think I have some 'lived experience' of the otherness of which you speak.

[larazopf]

"how social issues might play a part in the higher rates." I see what you mean. I have not written a dissertation but I have a theory nevertheless. If you grow up in a social environment where your family, due to their social status (could be due to poverty, being a 'stranger', i.e. different skin colour, ethnicity, nationality or language) are not integrated and respected by the community i.e. have social capital etc. children develop less self worth, which might lead to mental health issues. I belief that the self confidence and self efficacy people's parents possess deeply affects their life chances and long term mental health.

Growing up as a black person in a predominantly white area will pose a bigger problem for someone as an adult than growing up black in a community or country where most people are black who the moves to a country with a white majority. so it is not necessarily about race but experiencing a sense of nor belonging in childhood.

[Backingvocals]

I do think it's a bit of a poor article tbh.

Lots of anecdata - not a lot of analysis. I agree that I won't be aware of many of the issues of being a black woman as I am not black - but this article doesn't enlighten me at all. "I know lots of black women with mental health issues" is not really moving the discussion forward. So it's a missed opportunity.

[3WiseWomen]

Baby how long have you lived in SE Asia?

I think that when you have to adapt to an environment but you know it's short time, you know it's not your country is one thing.
When you have to do that all your life and in your own country, it's something else.

I think there is an issue with culture and with behaviour in one culture been looked as OK and but seen as aggressive in another.
When you are from a different country, it feels normal to make an effort, adapt. And you know it's not for ever.
When it's your own country, why is it that one culture is deemed ok and not the other?

This is a huge issue associated with a 'multi cultural society'. There will always be areas when said cultures will clash. And there will always be a 'dominant' culture that people are supposed to be abidding, which means that the other cultures feels they are short changed.

[Shoki]

I asked you if you've done any research on the angry black woman stereotype as you'd said there was 'nothing whatsoever' to back it up. It doesn't sound like you have to be honest and as someone said above, it seems like you've missed the point of the article.

[AdrenalineFudge]

Babycham In my honest view, what you are doing now is changing tack. Whilst I agree you did say that these are issues that "desperately" need to be addressed you've also gone on to call it "More Guardian identitiy politics bullshit!" Which it is not.

It is a very real experience of those people interviewed. Why are their views any less worthy just because you've felt out of place at one time or another. It just doesn't follow.

And I think this is especially critical because society in the main has moved on from overt racism - now it's subtle and insidious which imo is even worse because it's neither here nor there i.e. can't be proven. If a black person feels discriminated against people will accuse them of playing the race card. That's not on and I think we need more of these sorts of articles to highlight the point.

If you had an issue with the way it's written then you should have said so from the off, what you actually said: "However, is it just me, or are these not just examples of how to be a normal grown-up of any sex or colour!?" And no, it's not. Not in the slightest.

[Babycham1979]

"However, is it just me, or are these not just examples of how to be a normal grown-up of any sex or colour!?" And no, it's not. Not in the slightest.

Yes, yes they are entirely.

[AdrenalineFudge]

Then we've reached an impasse. It's difficult to have a constructive discussion with someone who doesn't see much further than the end of their nose.

[Shoki]

The fact that you think you having to adjust your behaviour when living in a foreign country is the same as a black person having to adjust their behaviour in their own country is quite telling.

[Babycham1979]

I don't think individuals are ever going to reach their full potential if, every time they find themselves in a difficult situation, they blame their circumstances on external factors.

I absolutely agree that racism exists, but nothing in that article supports the claim that these women are suffereing from it.

It reminds me that I heard someone recently describe those who post on the Daily Mail website as "people whose lives are always someone else's fault"

[larazopf]

I think it's a storm in a tea cup. agreed the article is shallow and, i believe, stereotyping somewhat.

People who naturally feel more aggressive as part of their natural temper will feel that they have to work harder at controlling their temper and fitting whatever their ethnicity or skin colour. I'm sure this can be difficult and feel like they cannot be themselves. I think if someone is naturally more docile and 'peace and love' others will pick up on the vibes and feel more at ease with them. I am half greek and have inherited my granny's 'temperament'. i have to work hard on containing it and it does feel uncomfortable sometimes, which can lead to anxiety.


what i don't understand is this: how can the guardian wrote an article about mental health and make references to race? is this knot in itself racist?

[FragileBrittleStar]

Babysham - the case for inclusivity is the same as has been articulated here- businesses/employers benefit from having a diverse workforce and inclusivity encourages this
Not sure who you worked for in South East Asia or when?

[Babycham1979]

The fact that you think you having to adjust your behaviour when living in a foreign country is the same as a black person having to adjust their behaviour in their own country is quite telling.

Shoki, my point was in direct response to Frageilbrittlestar's post about having to tailor your behaviour in the workplace, and I addressed it as such. Stop trying to be disengenuous.

[larazopf]

*knot??? not

"However, is it just me, or are these not just examples of how to be a normal grown-up of any sex or colour!? "

op has made it clear that she believes there are disparities and that she thinks the examples given are poor and reflect poor journalism.

Come on give op a break, the examples in article are what most people (women?) will experience at one point or another. there must be better ones, which the guardian journo did not mother to collect. it is a lazy article. not surprised