to not know whether to try and find out if DD has Aspergers or is just a bit eccentric?

[Fortful]

I really don't want to cause offence, and am putting this here rather than in SN so I get a broad range of opinions.

So DD2 has just turned 14. Doing well at school, plays a sport (individual), is generally pretty calm, few teenage outbursts, loves her dog (more than her big sister I suspect!).

DD finds the social aspect of school hard, not only at lunch and break, but finding people to work with in class - the other girls often annoy her by being silly, or say unkind things to her. She has been bullied. She isn't into her appearance - at all. She looks fine, just no make up, minimal hair brushing, standard uniform (doesn't roll her skirt or blazer sleeves!). She just isn't interested in typical teen stuff like boys, bands, parties, instagram. DD1 was more typical in this way - had a gang of friends at school, lots of sleepevers, social media etc.

She is also quite shy. She will chat with people she knows well, but it can be somewhat one-sided, she doesn't remember to ask other people questions about themselves. She hates speaking on the phone, and talking to people in shops etc. To me it looks like she is just acutely self conscious. I guess other people would say she is socially awkward.

She has a few things that she is really 'into'. Nerdy things, but they make her happy. She has a couple of people she sees out of school that are also in to these things, so she meets up with them infrequently. She doesn't seem to feel the need to go and see friends. Once a fortnight she might, otherwise she is happy at home.

She is clumsy, quite often very unaware of what is going on around her, finds it hard to think under pressure, or remember verbal instructions (though she is very bright - top sets at school - all girls school btw, her choice). Her hearing and sight are fine.

She did see a school counsellor because she felt unhappy at school, and she does get anxious about the future - because she is bright she sees how hard it is for young people and worries about debt, university, affording somewhere to live. She is quite a serious person. This anxiety isn't constant at a high level, but she is pretty introspective and ruminates.

I have heard her peers describe her as 'weird'. Her older sister has also called her that. One teacher asked if she had a diagnosis of anything. Other teachers say either she is lovely and contributes well, or is quiet, depending on the subject.

So, where does socially awkward end, and being on the spectrum start? I really don't know if she has anything diagnosable, or whether she is just a shy and serious teen. I know from a friend who does admin in a teen mental health team that trying to get a diagnosis takes ages, and you have to be very high need to get seen, so is it worth trying even? If she has Aspergers, would having that confirmed make a difference? She knows she is different from her peers anyway, and might see a diagnosis as constraining what she is capable of rather than explaining her differences.

[hiddenhome2]

I have just been diagnosed with Aspergers and I would say that the difference is in that people with asd usually feel quite a bit of distress and anxiety in their day to day lives.

School believes that ds2 has Aspergers and are arranging for a psychologist to come in and see him. He is extremely anxious and struggling socially as well as other signs.

[roundaboutthetown]

Is your dd really that unhappy? Does she want to fit in more, or want to meet more people with similar interests? Does she think she's weird? Does she want to understand herself better, or is it just you? Does she want any specific support for anything - eg dealing with anxiety, staying calm under pressure, help with organisation, maintaining friendships?

[DotForShort]

Like others on this thread, I can see so much of myself as a teen in your description of your DD. The only significant difference is that I never had difficulty making friends. I am not on the autism spectrum. One of my siblings is, though he was not diagnosed as a child (decades ago, when pursuing a diagnosis probably would have led nowhere TBH). His life has been very difficult, and I often wonder what might have happened if he had had the good fortune of being born 20 years later.

What does your DD think about investigating the possibility of ASD? As she is 14, her wishes should be taken into account IMO. Even if you end up not pursuing this further, in your shoes I would definitely seek out some help for her WRT the social element. That is actually the issue I would be most concerned about (the difficulty with friendships and even interacting with other girls in lessons). Does your DD have friends through her sport or elsewhere? Has she ever had friends?

[DotForShort]

Oops, posted too soon. You mentioned that there are some people she sees occasionally but would she classify them as friends? Does she genuinely not need to see people or does the thought of social interactions cause her so much anxiety that she would prefer to avoid them?

[briss]

please don't attempt to diagnose

huh? Where have I attempted to diagnose? there are plenty of women on here who have given their own experiences with their own similar sounding children. Apologies if I have upset anyone, I didn't mean to.

[TeenAndTween]

Sounds like my DD who was assessed a year or so ago as having dyspraxia.

The diagnosis has really helped her as she can 'label' the reason for her difficulties which makes others (especially teachers) more understanding.

[AugustRose]

Your description is similar to my DD who is almost 14 although she has noticeable anxiety. If she is unwell or tired at school/or even if someone praises her and asks her how she is it can lead to distress and aggressive behaviour. She can also become very focused on one thing for months on end arranging her whole day around talking/acting out/reading about this thing.

About 6 months ago I read about PDA (pathological demand avoidance) which is often linked to Asperger's, and recognised so many signs in my DD both now and in the past. However, at the moment she is happyish at school and quite calm so we have decided not to attempt a diagnosis.

I also recently talked to a social worker I know who said I wouldn't get a diagnosis in Cumbria. She had been through a year of trying to get a diagnosis for another family she knew and in the end they had to go direct to the Elizabeth Newton institute as the consultant in our area doesn't 'believe' in these conditions and will not refer or diagnose.

Similar to your DD mine has a small group of friends but she is not really interested in seeing them out of school and doesn't enjoy anything that involves large groups of people.

[yongnian]

briss
The part where you said in my opinion the OPs DD is not on the spectrum
None of us can possibly know whether she is she isn't. Only someone qualified to assess who has OPs DD in front of them (and taking all the early history from caregivers, unobtrusive school observations, other professionals opinions where relevant, an ADOS questionnaire - very extensive).
OP in my experience the assessment process is pretty non-intrusive for the child...though much more involved for the parent. (My DD was younger than yours however.) Now is the time to go for it if you are going to..Once she is 16 it is generally harder to get access as it is usually adult services who deal with over-16s and she may not be considered a priority by them. (depends on service provision whereyou are)

[yorkshapudding]

yobgian has it spot on. No one here (not matter how much personal or professional experience they have) can possibly tell whether OP's DD has ASD or not. I am a specialist CAMHS nurse and part of my job involves assessing children and young people for ASD but I wouldn't dream of making a diagnosis (or ruling one out) based on a Mumsnet post.

OP, you've mentioned that your DD has experienced anxiety and that she struggles socially. Even if your DD does not meet the criteria for an ASD diagnosis, the assessing clinician/team will be able to give you some strategies to manage those issues so it may be worth looking into purely on that basis. Young people with ASD traits can find that their anxiety increases as they get older and the social and academic pressures of school become more intense. On balance, the majority of the families I've worked with have felt that they and their child derived some benefit from having a diagnosis but you are the expert on your own child and family so only you can make that judgement.

You might find it helpful to speak to someone from the National Autistic Society about your concerns around the process of assessment/diagnosis. Young Minds are also very helpful.

[SleepyRoo]

She sounds lovely. And if "not being into her appearance" is a cause for anxiety about a teenage daughter - then wake me up when we're back in the 21st century!

[theycallmemellojello]

The loving her dog more than her sister but really jumps out to me. That's really serious if true and worth seeking support over - even if there are no sn that's not great psychologically.

[QuiteLikely5]

I wouldn't go for a diagnosis, simply because I don't believe it will benefit her at this moment in time.

What will it change for her for the better?

Some folk are socially awkward or just don't want a huge group of friends etc and that's ok

Different is ok

[MrsLupo]

I am an aspie and struggled a lot as a teenager. In fact, I struggle a lot as an adult but at least I know why now. Like many here, I only got my diagnosis once one of the DCs was being assessed for ASD. It's a great relief, when you know you have always been 'different', to finally understand why, and how, and what you can do to make things easier for yourself. Now that I know I am an aspie, I'm much kinder to myself about the things I find hard or impossible to do. I no longer wonder why I'm a loser who can't seem to cope with things that others take in their stride. It makes sense of some of the respects in which I feel I am a bit useless, but also some of the respects in which I think I am rather brilliant. ASD is not just a disability. It bestows a little spark of genius that others don't have and can't necessarily understand. I am proud of being an aspie and more than happy to take the rough with the smooth now I know who and what I am.

How does your DD feel about attempting a diagnosis, OP? I think you need to be led by her, and then it won't be such a dilemma.

ASD in girls and women is not well understood and if you go via CAMHS/the NHS it's a complete lottery as to whether you see someone who has even the first clue. If I have only one piece of advice for you it would be to see someone privately if you can possibly afford it.

[MyLifeisaboxofwormgears]

This sounds like me when I was a teenager, I wasn't interested in my appearance or other people.
Still aren't 40 odd years later.

I am not on the spectrum at all but I am an introvert and I "live in my head". I also had minimal opportunity to develop social skills due to having an odd family.
I have worked on them as an adult but I still prefer to be by myself, loathe huge groups of other women - I find their talk screechy, generally vacuous, and utterly pointless.

My DD is going the same way, I make sure she has some opportunities to practice fitting in and doing a few things with groups but she is just as happy on her own.

Your DD sounds as if she has high IQ and is introverted. The world, sadly, isn't well equipped to deal with people like that, especially modern schooling where being an complete extrovert and externally focused on appearance and friendship groups (especially for girls) is so emphasized that not wanting to be talking constantly about total rubbish is seen as bordering on a medical condition.

It may be worth seeing if you can find a counsellor/psychologist who deal with anxiety (you must get a specialist) and see if your DD will enroll in a mindfulness course where she can learn to control her more negative thoughts - I have done this for myself and with DD and it was money well spent.

And she isn't weird - she is different.
It would be nice if she could find a similar friend, my DD has met a girl very like her and they get on like a house on fire. I was the same at school, one good friend makes all the difference. If it's any comfort, most of the world's great thoughts came from people like your DD.

[hiddenhome2]

Having a diagnosis is extremely helpful if you do have asd.

People with asd commonly experience lifelong mental illness, particularly those with a higher IQ.

A diagnosis can be vital for these people.

Asd can have serious, lifelong implications. Statistics show that people with asd have higher rates of mental illness and suicide than the general population.

Asd is not merely about being 'unsocial' or 'quirky', it's actually bloody difficult to live with.

[Vaginaaa]

hidden, did you go private as an adult or through nhs? Sorry if you've already said.

[hiddenhome2]

I went private with somebody who specialises in women with asd. She was really good and explained things very well.

I have no faith in the NHS because they don't seem up to date with the latest research. They just trot out the usual stereotypes about people who have asd and seem misinformed. They can also struggle to assess women because they present somewhat differently to men.

I had to complete various questionnaires before a face to face assessment took place, in order to find out if I was experiencing significant difficulties.

[chicaguapa]

Your DD sounds like my DD (same age).

She was assessed at the end of early years and KS1 for ASD and Aspergers (at school's request) but the conclusion was that she has traits and some strategies used for ASD would be useful, but there was no diagnosis. So we used various strategies when needed and are aware of some difficulties she might have with certain areas of her life (like organisation and flexibility) and cut her a bit of slack with those.

DD is very happy in her own skin, which helps. She's lucky enough to have a group of friends at school who are all geeky and quirky. But I agree with a PP that your DD will meet more likeminded people at college or uni. It may be that she just doesn't fit with the small selection of people at her school.

So my advice would be don't necessarily push for a diagnosis. Read up (if you haven't already) on the ASD traits and identify yourself which you think your DD has. Then arm yourself with that knowledge and how to approach dealing with them.

If she has any difficultly at school, you can have that conversation with her teachers and just help them to understand what approaches work best. eg When DD was at primary school we realised she'd miss the last 10 minutes of the lesson as she'd be anxious about the bell ringing and focussing on that. So the teacher started to give important information at the beginning of the lesson or tell DD at another time. She didn't need a diagnosis for that, but it helped that we were aware and could help the teacher find a solution.

HTH.

[saoirse31]

So essentially because she's not into girly things, is shy and takes her life and the world seriously, she must have a condition? I think you should support her, and respect who she is, even if her interest in what you describe as 'nerdy' things disappoints you.

[Nataleejah]

The loving her dog more than her sister but really jumps out to me. That's really serious if true and worth seeking support over - even if there are no sn that's not great psychologically.
The sister who calls her names. No wonder she prefers the dog

Having different interests from the people born in the same year isn't really a disorder.

[Vaginaaa]

Thanks hidden! I've pmed you to get the name, hope that's okay!

That's my concern with waiting to go through the nhs. I've had to approach three GPs before getting referred because it's all geared towards male traits. One GP said there was no point because I could make eye contact and speak to her in my appointment

[hiddenhome2]

Omg, I get so sick of the eye contact myths

People really just don't understand what asd is about.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

A consultant neurologist told me DD clearly didn't have autism because she "had varying facial expressions'.