Ex wants parental responsibility of my son (his step-son), and I don't trust him. AIBU to block it?

[mojoawol]

Me and DH split up in October last year, I had a DS (now 11) from a previous relationship, whose father died when he was v small. Ex-dh, as a step dad, has therefore become his father figure, and now we've separated, ex has shared care of him (which he wanted as ex has DD from a previous also, and they are pretty close).
Ex is a divorce lawyer, and pretty controlling and bullying, not physically (at least not with the kids) so, although I have very mixed feelings about the kids being with him, there's very little I can do apart from be there for them when I am.
Ex has said he wants Parental Responsibility for my son. I've spoken to a lawyer who said that as he has shared care, and is playing the role of a parent, he will more than likely get it. Lawyer also told me that it doesn't really give him any rights to make decisions or anything without involving me, just to know information about him - ie his schooling etc.
However, I just don't trust him. He is an absolute narcissist who wants everyone to think he's doing the right thing for his own benefit and image. He's even said he'll be able to get it even if I don't agree (which in itself is pretty bullying)
Does anyone know anything about PR? Can it give him any rights to anything? I'm concerned why he's so desperate to get it. Could it be a stepping stone to trying to adopt him?

[NameChange30]

I don't think it's particularly funny that the OP is minimising the potential negative effects of this man on her children's emotional well being.

Personally I think you should reduce the amount of contact time to less than 50%. And do not dream of giving him PR.

[43percentburnt]

Get a second opinion from a recommended solicitor who has a lot of experience in abuse.

One question I would ask is about parental responsibility and contact with his dd from his previous relationship for yourself and your son. Why has he not offered this? I presume his daughter lived with you 50% of the time. This enables the three kids to spend time together. (I have no idea if this is possible but it's interesting that your ex hasn't offered it).

[43percentburnt]

Sorry I phrased that badly, has he offered you PR and contact with his dd? If not why not? (Especially the contact presumably you played a big part in her life). Could his 50% with her be split with you?

[wannaBe]

"One question I would ask is about parental responsibility and contact with his dd from his previous relationship for yourself and your son. Why has he not offered this? I presume his daughter lived with you 50% of the time. This enables the three kids to spend time together. (I have no idea if this is possible but it's interesting that your ex hasn't offered it)." But the dynamic is different there. His dd from his previous relationship lives with her mother for 50% of the time. there would be no question of the op having parental responsibility in that regard, whereas the op's ds' father died and is therefore not a part of the equation.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"I am having a little chuckle at this thread."

I agree with Emma. I don't find anything particularly funny about this.

"Some posters seem to be working themselves into an increasing froth suggesting contact is stopped and so forth."

It is certainly not unusual for people to project their own experiences upon a situation, Bill, however when one considers how often there are close parallels between (otherwise unconnected) experiences, I don't think it does to be too dismissive of them.

"OP seems so much more calm and reasoned"

She does indeed. Amazingly so! In fact, so much so that her calmness and reason accentuated (to me) all the red flags I was seeing in her posts, rather than reassure me that they weren't too much of a problem.

I would not give this man parental rights and responsibilities willingly.

[Meeep]

If he has cared for your son since he was young as his main father figure, and he now has him for half the week, then surely it makes sense for him to have parental responsibility legally? They love each other and your ex wants to make it more official. Seems sensible to me.

[harrasseddotcom]

you were happy enough to involve him in your sons life for 7 years, and allow them to develop a close relationship and to allow him to have 50/50 contact time together (which I think is pretty admiral of your ex compared to the majority of single fathers I know/heard of) I think the PR is a perfectly acceptable request from your ex. I think your letting your own feelings towards your ex (which may be entirely justified between you and your ex) to cloud your response to your Ex's request. Its what is best for the child (and from the sound of it, your child treats this man as his father). It sounds as though you are scared of losing 100% control over your child but surely thats to be expected if you allow another person to act as parent to your child, especially over the prolonged period you have stated.

[whatevva]

I am also concerned that OP says that she does not trust her ex but is so reasoned about the 50/50 contact. This raises red flags. It is looking like she has allowed this to happen because she has been unable to find reasons not to allow it to happen, and having to reason against a lawyer can make black seem white. PR is then just a formality.

She needs to get lawyered up and undermine the reasons for the 50/50 arrangement. It does not seem normal - EOW would have been fine. The DC is growing up so does not need PR like a younger one. The ex has not been there all the DC's life - 7 years is a blink of an eye in a lifetime, and is not enough to take control of a child's life, just because his father died. The DC will have relatives from his late father who can tell him about him etc. and this will become important to him when he is older. Just because he died does not mean he did not exist.

[harrasseddotcom]

whatevva why is 50/50 not normal between parents? the fact that ex is not biologically related to child should not matter, he has acted as parent for 7 years. Are fathers (biological/adopted/step) who step to parenthood not entitled to the same rights and time to spend with children when adults split? if not, why not?

[whatevva]

50/50 is normal between parents. He is not the parent. He is the step parent and has not adopted the child. He does not even have PR. All he did was marry the mother for 7 years. And whatever he put down on paper as the reasons for the 50/50 contact, which as a divorce lawyer, he knows the 'right answers' to.

It is the best interests of the child that should be paramount and not the best interests of the child according to the person who wants rights.

[whatevva]

Also, the child does not actually need a second adult to make decisions for him. He has a mother who as far as we know is in good health and that is enough. He is going to be gradually making his own decisions in the next few years, so it is not necessary to have a second person. It would only be in his interests if it was his need, not for the convenience of the adults.

[NameChange30]

OP, I wonder if you might benefit from looking at Stately Homes thread and/or the book "Toxic Parents". If you learned a bit more about the potential impact of your ex's parenting behaviour on your children, it might help you to feel stronger and more determined to stand up to him.

He sounds a bit like Mr Right from the Abuser Profiles. I doubt very much that having that kind of man for a (step)father must be much fun at all.

And just because the OP thought he was a suitable partner and step father for 7 years doesn't mean she can't change her mind. Abusers don't usually reveal themselves straight away. It may be that his behaviour escalated over the years until she decided she couldn't take it any more.

I just find it staggering to expect a child to cope with him when a grown woman couldn't.

[aginghippy]

YANBU to not agree to it. He's right in a way, that it would be the judge to make the final decision, but that doesn't mean you just have to roll over and go along with it. If he actually does take it to court and if the court decides it's in ds's best interest, then he would get pr.

The medical emergency thing is a load of nonsense btw. All hospitals will have procedures for treating children if a parent is not present. What happens if a child is injured at school/sports club/grandma's? The ambulance takes them to hospital and they just wait? Of course not.

[mojoawol]

So, I've had a chat with another solicitor and it seems I don't really have a choice. If I don't consent to it, he can get a court to approve it. They'd approve it on the basis of him having an active role in DS's life for the past 7 years (ie regardless of how much care/contact he has with him now).
He can potentially block me from, for example, moving away (which I'm not intending to do anyway). He could make it difficult for me to take him away on holiday if I wanted - but that would also work the other way, and I don't see why he would want to do that.
He can't make any decisions without my input, and if there were any disagreement, it would prob have to be resolved in court.
I've said to ex that if he wants my consent, I want to discuss rationally, via mediation if necessary.
If he goes ahead without my consent, it would irrevocably damage any amicable co-parenting arrangement we're trying to maintain.

[NameChange30]

Do not consent. Let him take you to court if he must.

You've spoken to two solicitors so far - do either of them had experience of supporting clients with abusive partners or ex partners?

It doesn't sound hopeful but if I were you I'd still fight. Mediation sounds like a good idea but do not let him bully you!

[hedgehogsdontbite]

Originally I said don't do it but that was before I saw you have a shared child too. As you are already restricted via that child I don't think it makes any difference really so would let it go ahead.

[Dowser]

I would have thought if he hasn't legally adopted him you have the final say.

That's my logic anyway and haven't had time to rtft

[ADishBestEatenCold]

I'm sorry if you've already covered this and I've missed it, mojoawol ... may I ask, are you and your ExH divorced? Also, if you are not divorced, have either of you yet petitioned or planned for divorce?

[Italiangreyhound]

mojoawol did your ex ever talk about adopting your son while you were married?If yes, why did it not happen? If no, does it not seem suspicious that he is making demands about PR now?

Twenty texts a day sounds like bullying to me. Keep all texts and emails etc.

[NameChange30]

Yep 20 texts a day is definitely harassment.
I wonder if the solicitors' advice would still be the same if they had the whole picture of harassment and abuse.

[Italiangreyhound]

Can I recommend you talk to www.gingerbread.org.uk/

Their website says they "...provide expert advice, practical support and campaign for single parents."

Also take a look at this..

www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/advice-support-40/non-biological-families-604/806162-step-parent-parental-responsibility-all.html

If you do not want your ex to have PR please check out a range of organisations to see what is available for you.

This one is very interesting.....

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/parental-responsibility/

"Married step parents and civil partners

Married step-parents and civil partners can acquire PR for a step child or child of the family by either entering into a PR agreement or by asking the court to make a PR order.

PR agreements require signed consent from all parents with PR. Form C(PRA2) is available from the family courts or to download (see Useful Contacts)"

If you are no longer married to him I cannot see how they can force you to give pr to your ex for your son.

Please note...

"The issues relating to PR can be complex and we have provided a very basic overview of terminology, law and court practice and procedure. We would also strongly advise you to seek legal advice by either telephoning our legal advice line or a solicitor.

Please note that the law as set out in this guide is the law as it stood in England and Wales at the date of publication (August 2014). The law may have changed since then and accordingly you are advised to take up to date legal advice. Rights of Women cannot accept responsibility for any reliance placed on the legal information contained in this guide. This legal guide is designed to give general information only."


The website also says...

For free, confidential, legal advice contact our advice lines

Useful Contacts

Child Maintenance Options – 0800 988 0988 – //www.cmoptions.org

Legal Aid Agency – 0345 345 4 345

National Domestic Violence Helpline – 0808 2000 247 – //www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk

National Family Mediation – 0300 4000 636 – //www.nfm.org.uk

Gingerbread (advice for separated parents) – 0808 802 0925 – //www.gingerbread.org.uk

Relate – 0300 100 124 – //www.relate.org.uk

Resolution (for finding a family solicitor) – 01689 820272 – //www.resolution.org.uk

Samaritans – 08457 909090 – //www.samaritans.org.uk

Court forms and locations – //www.justice.gov.uk/about/hmcts

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/

[starry0ne]

Reading through the thread...My worry for you that doesn't seem to have been raised is first Ex..You want the kids together...Hers are the oldest and will be out the situation in a few years...

You do have to think of your children.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"If you are no longer married to him I cannot see how they can force you to give pr to your ex for your son."

This ^^ is why I was asking OP if she and ExH were divorced, Italiangreyhound.

On this site

www.newlawjournal.co.uk/nlj/content/step-parents-family-or-legal-strangers

I found the paragraph headed Parental responsibility order, which states

It is important to bear in mind that if the application for parental responsibility is made after the step-parent and natural parent’s relationship has broken down, a parental responsibility order can only be made if the applicant is still married to the child’s natural parent.

That's something I would expect the ExH to know, given his legal background, and it made me wonder if OP and her ExH are not yet divorced and the ExH is trying to get Parental Rights & Responsibilities through, before a divorce is finalised.

[amarmai]

What about how your son may feel in the future ,op , if you allow this controlling man to have power over your son? There will come a time when your son will blame you for allowing that to happen. Who stands to gain from this pr control ?

[Italiangreyhound]

www.majorfamilylaw.co.uk/services/children-and-parenting-disputes/step-parents/

I've copied this whole section so as to avoid misrepresenting anything but I am highlighting that bits that I think are relevant....


What about Step Parents?

It is common these days for parents to marry or to enter into a long term relationship with someone who is not their child’s biological parent.

The step parent often develops strong bonds with the child and plays a significant role in their upbringing, but legally the step parent has no standing when it comes to decisions about the child and its upbringing, even signing consent forms for school.

Whether the other (non-resident) biological parent plays an ongoing active role in the child’s life or not, step parents can feel side-lined, compromised or simply that the depth of their relationship with the child is unacknowledged, and this can be just as much of an issue for the child when a step parent is viewed as a significant figure in their life.

Step parents cannot acquire parental responsibility for a child simply by marrying the child’s biological parent. Previously, step parents could only acquire parental responsibility for a step child by legally adopting the child, or by obtaining a Residence Order from the court.

A step-parent can acquire parental responsibility for a child in very specific circumstances including:

When the court makes a Child Arrangements Order that the child lives with the step-parent either on their own or with another person. However these types of ‘step parent’ orders are uncommon.
When the step-parent adopts a child which puts him/her in the same position as a birth parent.
Through the signing of a Parental Responsibility Agreement to which all other people with Parental Responsibility consent. (see below)
When the court has made a Parental Responsibility Order following an application by the step-parent. On acquiring parental responsibility, a step-parent has the same duties and responsibilities as a natural parent.

Same sex partners in a registered civil partnership or marriage can also acquire parental responsibility by agreement or a court order.

How do I get a Step Parent Parental Responsibility Agreement?

There are two simple conditions to obtaining PR by agreement:-

you must be married to the biological parent with whom the child lives
you must have the signed consent of every person with parental responsibility for the child

This means that if the other parent of the child is living and has Parental Responsibility, they must agree to you acquiring Parental Responsibility and they must cooperate in the agreement being approved by the Court, not just the parent to whom you are married.

You must also be able to provide your marriage certificate showing you are married to the child’s parent; the child’s parent must provide the child’s full birth certificate; where there is another parent with parental responsibility, proof that they have parental responsibility must be provided; and all parties to the agreement must provide photographic evidence of identity (eg. passport or driving licence).

What if the other parent won’t agree or cooperate?

It can be a contentious issue when other people are involved in the upbringing of your children. The idea of sharing parental responsibility with your former spouse or partner’s new spouse may not sit comfortably and may be viewed as an attempt to marginalise them in their own child’s life.

If that parent’s agreement is not forthcoming and you and your spouse remain of the view that you having Parental Responsibility is in the child’s best interests, then you can apply to the Court to make an Order giving you Parental Responsibility.

If you would like more information on how to apply to the Court and what it involves, contact us today.

What are the effects of a Step Parent Parental Responsibility Agreement?

Here’s what it doesn’t do:-

It doesn’t remove Parental Responsibility from the absent biological parent
It doesn’t give you a greater say than the absent parent in the child’s upbringing (but it does give you an equal say)
It doesn’t make you liable to pay maintenance for the child
If you separate from the child’s parent/move out, it doesn’t give you an automatic right to see the child

What it does do is give you the same legal rights and obligations in relation to raising the child as the biological parent or parents.