AIBU to think that both husband and wife can make good money, do fulfilling work and take part in family life

[CalpolOnToast]

We are both self-employed.

My husband thinks that to bring in very good money as a family you need one partner working all the time and the other to be a SAHP or very flexible. He is willing to be the SAHP.

I think that it ought to be possible for us both to work part time, probably in our own business, and earn the same as one of us would but still have a decent amount of time with DS.

DH says he's never heard of anyone doing it and that I'm dreaming.

Has anyone reading this run a family business, earnt lots of money (Xenia type money ) and had time to spend with their children?

[YeOldeTrout]

Pah, I can't type. We work 5.5-6 days/week between 2 of us.

[Wolpertinger]

In practice it's easiest if at least one of you is very flexible about hours, ideally both of you, at least some working from home goes on, money is big enough to buy a lot of childcare and/or you live very close to a supportive family you have healthy relationships with, and money is big enough for both of you to work max 4 days a week so you get lots of time with kids.

Money wouldn't have to be massive if you both picked the right jobs, age of partners and parents, lived near parents who were happy to do free childcare etc.

To earn Xenia type money you are doing a lot of work outside work hours though and effectively outsourcing 99% of your childcare to nannies except for set pieces though. This prob isn't what he has in mind.

[SevenSeconds]

I can think of two couples in which both man and woman work in high earning careers and participate in family life. Childcare is a nanny in both cases. I know a lot more families in which one parent is a SAHP or works part time or flexibly - but it certainly is possible.

[FannyTheChampionOfTheWorld]

I think yanbu but define your terms. What's very good money? He is BU to think you can't both be high flyers, but what you will need is bullet proof childcare. Re combined earnings from part time amounting to similar or more than one of you would earn going all out, yes this is possible. DH and I do about 50-55 hours a week between us and earn about 1.4 times what one of our full time wage would be, iyswim. We'd probably need to work maybe 42-45 hours a week in a full time role.

[redskybynight]

DH and I have the lifestyle you suggest - we both have professional jobs which we enjoy but work slightly short hours (32 and 35) and have short commutes so we can maximise family life.

But realistically it's meant both of us compromising our careers - the 2 of us together are not earning as much as 1 totally career minded adult would have done although there are of course some tax benefits to doing it this way.

Interestingly, my DB and SIL do the career parent/SAHP thing. DB earns loads (and their lifestyle would not be possible under an arrangement like ours - think private school, big house etc.) but has less time than he would like with family and always misses things liike school concerts. SIL at the moment seems to enjoy having lots of time for hobbies and being around for the DC after school/holidays. I do wonder how she will feel in a few years when her DC are older and don't want her so much.

Neither of us would swap for the others' way of doing things, but definitely pros and cons both ways!

[ImperialBlether]

I wouldn't be happy at all if my husband suggested I worked all the hours there were while he was a SAHP. One false move and he could demand a divorce and for me to move out, leaving me paying him maintenance and losing the children.

[Samantha28]

Most people I know who have a very good income, say £200 k plus household income , work very long hours .

Either they own their own business and work most evenings and weekends and rarely take a holiday .

Or they do a very demanding professional job at a high level, like a partner in a major law / accountancy firm or a C level job in a large company . And work a lot of evenings and weekends .

I'm sure there are very well off people out there who have inherited it, or sold their small IT company to google , but they are not in my social circle .

If you both have a job like these and want to have children , you need a lot of expensive things like childcare plus , perhaps school fees and you may need to live in an expensive part of the country . The other cost is that you wont see much of your kids or have much of a family life .

I believe Xenia manages it by having a SAHP.

Some families manage by having their children brought up by their extended family - I believe that many Indian busniess women do this .

I don't think there are many easy but very well paid 9-5 jobs out there , or we would all be doing them

[Goingtobeawesome]

Does your DH think anything is impossible if he hadn't heard of anyone doing it?

If it is worth a try, try and if not try something else.

[namelessposter]

We both work 30hrs/week in our own business (plus 3/hrs a day commuting). So we do drop-off and pick-up, and have afternoons off to watch sports matches etc. But it took us 10yrs+ in setting up the business (and working 50hrs/week) to get to the point where we could both reduce our hours, so not easily achieved.

[FannyTheChampionOfTheWorld]

I'd never swap our two part timers for one full timer, but there are disadvantages. You have two lots of commuting and working costs rather than one. Part timers tend to get screwed on travel costs, if you work three days you probably pay more than 60% of the full time figure. The two sets of personal allowance save you 2k compared to one, but there are plenty of people who have to spend all that and more just getting to work. So you'd want to consider that. I do bits from home but mostly have to commute so that's a pain. You probably do also have to use a bit of childcare in this scenario, though couples sometimes manage it totally between themselves, so I agree it really helps to have family support. We'd find it very hard if we didn't, although its probably doable if you live close to work/wfh.

[Merguez]

YANBU. We do this in our family. I run my own business, working mainly from home, earn good money, but have the flexibility to take the dc to the activities they need during week, attend all their school events etc.

DH works away 3 nights a week, but works from home for 1 day a week which also offers flexibility and is full on Dad at weekend with sporting activities etc (2 boys). He earns substantially more than I do - CEO.

We are able to afford cleaner, gardener for a few hours a week which helps a lot; and can also afford school fees & decent holidays. I think we have a well balanced family life.

Also have grandparents living reasonably close who can help out with dc if we both have to be away for work at same time, which is also a huge asset. And dc are now teenagers so relatively self sufficient.

[Wolpertinger]

Agree your DH needs to be honest and name a figure for what good money is.

I know a lot of couples who have dropped back to part time or not pursued careers as far as they could as it would have meant not seeing more of their kids - missing all the concerts, nativity plays, always being the parent who never goes to assembly etc. They are now earning a lot less money but are happy.

redsky is also spot on about the SAHP dynamic. The traditional model for the very rich is male high earner, female SAHP. Woman fills her time, finds it v fulfilling when kids are younger, struggles when they get, older and start to finder boring, life fills up with shopping, man finds younger model.

I would have to feel very very secure in my marriage to be prepared to have DH as a SAHP - he would unlikely to do as much housework as me, I'd have all the stress of knowing I was keeping the whole show on the road, he would be doing most of the fun stuff with the kids and if the marriage broke down he would get to say he was their primary carer No way.

BIL and SIL have had BIL as SAHP and it's worked brilliantly for them - but BIL always did a bit of freelancing throughout which slowly increased and now they are both at school he's got a flexi hours job. Very different to one stays at home from 0-18.

[BrandNewAndImproved]

I was just coming on to say what imperial wrote. There has been quite a few threads on MN where women who were the higher earner have lost their dc as their ex was the sahp. One thread stands out in particular as he got to keep the house, dc and live off of her with the cm whilst another woman moved in. Fuck that.

[FannyTheChampionOfTheWorld]

I've read that men who give up work to care for children are more likely to do the odd bit of freelance, or consulting, or a shift here and there to keep their hand in. So not quite the traditional dynamic.

[Takeparacetamolandstopmoaning]

It doesn't sound like you're expecting much to me. I find it crazy that so many people seem to think someone has to stop working when a child arrives. But then I guess it depends what you mean by quality time. I have a similar amount of quality time with DC now (both work FT) as when on maternity leave, as the vast vast majority of my time at home with them wasn't quality!

[Postchildrenpregranny]

I will have to google Xenia but I assume it means mega bucks Five years ago DH and I had a pre- tax joint income of about £90,000. (mortgage was paid off in 1999 though). I worked in Local Govt. He for a regulatory body.
DH and I both worked ft from when DC1 was 12 and DC2 8 -I had been the main (sometimes only) earner for 8 years prior, some of it pt . When DH went back to ft work(we were both late forties) we had a lot of catching up to do financially and by then I was quite senior/well paid and , for a time at least, enjoyed my job .
I don't think the DCs/ family life suffered unduly. I worked locally and because I was quite senior had quite lot of flexibility . My boss cared only that I 'delivered' and not when. I could usually work from home if a child was(rarely) ill . I was assertive enough to remind everyone , for e.g that I had to leave a meeting at 5.45 to pick up from childcare . (cue sighs of relief all round. Everyone was glad to go home..) I rarely brought work home, other than reading, which I sometimes did while waiting for DCs at activities like early Sat am swimming lessons. Weekends were sacrosanct, though DH was always on call.
DH spent more time commuting (by train I had the car hence I did pick- ups and shopping ) but was often home before me as the DCs got older . We had a cleaner/ironer without whom we would have gone under. My MIL lived nearby but was already quite elderly and was used only for back- up in a real emegency . No other family locally.
The DCs are girls and I think it was a good role model . It wouldn't work if you were both really high flyers, worked ridiculous hours , didn't have understanding boss. And two good incomes are far better tax- wise than one huge one . I suspect being self employed creates a lot of its own pressures ,so while you might get flexibility you would also end up with little time for you/each other?
The only thing I really regret is that DD2 was a latch key kid from secondary school .After the first year it was fine though, and she quite liked having the house to herself for a bit . We did have to get cats though....

[rosy71]

We don't earn massive amounts of money at all but did both work part-time (4 days) until ds2 started school. I always thought of that as being ideal. The down side was that dp worked weekends so didn't see much of ds1 once he started school. We now both work full-time which is much harder imo!

I don't think a SAHP is necessary at all. I suppose the working parent will progress more in their career, but i's at the expense of the other iyswim.

[StellaAlpina]

Maybe he just wants to be a SAHP and feels as a man he needs 'an excuse' to want to be one?

[ProjectPerfect]

DH and I both have professional jobs although he has shorter hours I have far more flexibility.

We have a FT nanny and a house keeper which helps enormously and means the time we're at home is devoted to the DC but honestly it's still tough and I don't feel like we have the balance right.

I suspect this year we will make significant changes which will involve DH scaling right back so as to be a SAHP.

[regenerationfez]

Why do you have to earn 'very good money'? What is that? If you both want quality time with the children, why would he not be happy with comfortably off, can pay bills and make sacrifices, but both having time with the children? I would have thought a high flying career with Xenia millionaire money would require one person sacrificing a career and one person basically being an absent parent. I think both working part time is great for children and is a much better balance. I am working towards this, but I know neither of us will be millionaires. I don't think a sahp is necessary. Not many people do it anymore ( I think less than 20%) and the number is falling.

[notquitehuman]

I think you'd find it difficult to build up a business while working part time hours. I'm a freelancer who works mostly evening and weekends, but I've often had to work extra hours at busy times. I've often been afraid to turn down work as obviously my money situation is precarious.

Working part time unfortunately can mean your career stagnates, as there are less opportunities around if you won't commit to full time. I could see how having one ambitious professional working parent would have more earning potential in the long term, than two working possibly mediocre jobs that aren't going anywhere.

[toomanywheeliebins]

My husband works a 90 % contract (eg one afternoon of a week) in a professional level job. I work three days in a very senior job. Our income is over 100k PA. I would say we have a good work life balance and good careers although both have a bit of a hit for flexibility. We are v lucky - but in my three days working, I see the children v little and often work 16 hours days so do a full weeks work in that time. It works for me but is very hard as I can't do anything else but work in those days. Both of us have pushed the boundaries in our respective workplaces and have opened the way for others but at the time it has been hard

[Stillwishihadabs]

Yes this is possible. Dh and I did it for 5 years starting when the dcs were 6 &4 and finishing last September when they were 11 and 9. He works from home 2 days per week, I worked 2 or 3 long days (10-14 hours). We both earnt a shade under 50k so paid very little HRT and kept our CHB. The children only had 1 day a week (friday) when neither of us were home after school.
He is self employed, I am a doctor,I would say we were comfortable, but not wealthy.

[eurochick]

I think it's possible but unusual. There are not many couples who have equal careers in terms of both pay and flexibility. And if not equal, then the higher paid or less flexible tends to take priority so both partners don't end up making an equal contribution to family life.

[Stillwishihadabs]

I work ft now.