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Original poster

Alibi to think this is disgusting re:elderly

62 replies

FairyFluffbum · 19/12/2015 17:32

The new proposal for this council is to charge £26 a year to help the elderly back on to their feet if they fall. If they don't pay the charge they have to call 999 for help.

I think this is awful. Not only for the nhs as its a waste of time for a 999 call but for the pensioner itself.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/essex-council-to-charge-2592-lifting-charge-to-help-elderly-up-when-they-fall-a6778376.html

Sorry don't know how to link

OP posts:
Chattymummyhere · 19/12/2015 18:51

That's true redglitter grandads ring us ( he has something like 5 contact people) depending on if his close to the main base and can signal the actual issue an ambulance is called and we are then called to say his triggered his alarm and ambulance is on its way as his uncontactable or that his fallen and just needs us to pop over and help him up.

knobblyknee · 19/12/2015 18:58

"Typical anti tory rhetoric that when you look into it makes sense"...

hmm, well I remember when the NHS, social care, home helps, meals on wheels, day centres and the like were free to access.
I dont want o live in the USA where everything has a price not a value.

YANBU.

SeamstressfromTreacleMineRoad · 19/12/2015 19:11

As I understand it, this charge is on top of the monthly charge that is being paid at present Those using the service currently pay £21.60 a month...Under the planned changes, the council will introduce an additional £25.92 annual charge for a 'lifting service'
I must admit that if I was a first responder for this council, my main concern would be whether I would be expected to 'carry the can' if I made an error that resulted in someone who needed paramedic attention being helped up - and then suffering some sort of difficulty. If relatives wanted to sue someone, would it be the council for implementing this idea - or the individual carer..??? Any guesses...

SaucyJack · 19/12/2015 19:15

I feel sympathy that this is what life has come to for those who need the service..... but 50 pence a week is not a lot at all to pay for a private home care service in a minor emergency.

UndramaticPause · 19/12/2015 19:15

I'd have thought first responders would have basic first aid training (and some common sense as well as carer training) so if someone needed an ambulance they'd call one.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 19/12/2015 19:52

It's a lot cheaper than the Care line type alarm system the council told me I had to have and pay for when I became disabled.

They said i 'had to' pay £30 a month for a subscription to one of these careline type things. Now, where that money comes from is beyond me. I've never signed up for it as there was a much better solution which would be to stop making me fall over!

The especially annoying part was that I was only falling because I had insufficient care / bad care (at that point from the council). I don't fall when I can keep within my bodies limits and are able to pace and manage my condition.

But when forced to go beyond what my body is capable of it means my health deteriorated dramatically (& often permanently). So yes, I dislocate joints, rip soft tissue like muscles, tendons and ligaments, my balance and propriaception goes, my blood pressure plummets and I fall all over the place.

Now I have much better care (which I pay a lot towards but is at least spending money constructively!), and just carry my mobile phone around with me instead.

Tink06 · 20/12/2015 01:19

I think this is a good idea. That's a relatively small amount and gives a much better service than the already very stretched ambulance service. Often am ambulance isn't needed anyway. Just a friendly face to help them up, check them out and make sure they are okay.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/12/2015 02:18

Do we have to divide up the world into the deserving and the undeserving. My Dad has enough money to pay the 26 quid. And if he had a fall it probably would be wine-related. If someone can't afford the charge, they can call the emergency services.

Witchend · 20/12/2015 06:33

When my gdf fell, when his carers were there, they called 999 because they couldn't lift him up on their own. He was perfectly safe and comfortable, but obviously couldn't stay there.
All they actually needed were a couple of burly men. It seemed totally ridiculous to have to call emergency as it wasn't.
It must have been something that the carers had to do in the area not unfrequently so having a non emergency line with people who could do that not needing to be paramedics would have been sensible.

I'd imagine they'd be fairly lax as in if medical attention ws needed they'd put it down as that not a fall.

mollie123 · 20/12/2015 07:04

£26 a year is 50p a week - as one of the pensioners who lives alone with a gross income of £12k per year - I would happily pay this for the peace of mind that knowing someone will help me if I fall (not there yet Smile) and agree with the above poster about the alarm thingy is well worth it.

MammaTJ · 20/12/2015 08:14

To me, it seems like a tax on loneliness!

I am a key holder for a neighbour of mine and would be called if she pressed her alarm. I would then go and check on her, help her up if needed after checking her for injuries, or call an ambulance.

She would not need strangers to go in and do this. There is another key holder too.

Only those with no one close by would need it.

laplumeofmyaunt · 20/12/2015 08:28

Ha - this is timely. Our phone rang at 4.20am this morning. It was Mum, Dad had fallen. Now, he fell a couple of weeks ago, at about 2am. Mum called non emergency NHS who told her an ambulance wouldn't come out, but they would send a nurse as soon as possible, but it could be several hours.

Two nurses from our local general hospital arrived at about 6.30 am and decided they couldn't do anything without a blow up cushion/chair thing, so spent another 45 minutes going back to the hospital to get it. They knew the call out was for an elderly person who'd fallen so why they didn't bring the inflatable with them, or call via the hospital on the way to collect it I have no idea.

Now, Dad was OK, he'd bruised his coccyx, but no other injuries. But he's 86, and spending nearly 5 hours lying on the floor is not how he needs to spend his nights.

When I found out what had happened, I told mum to call us if he fell again (obviously with the proviso to call 999 if he hurts himself badly), hence the 4.20 am call this morning.

Luckily we're only 5 minutes away so had him back up in 15 minutes or so, but it is so worrying, and if it happens when we're not around, I hate to think of DDad having to lie on the floor for hours. So a £26 annual charge for help with this sort of thing would be brilliant, as long as they attend quickly and are obviously properly trained. Peace of mind all round.

DDad falls because he's unsteady on his pins, not due to blood pressure issues/dizziness etc, so trained non-medical staff should be able to deal with the issue.

I think it's a great idea. We do have to get used to the idea that not everything can be provided to us free.

LuluJakey1 · 20/12/2015 08:34

A 999 call costs more than £800 per call. If the council can do a service for £26 a year it is well worth it. £2 a month is nowt.

LIZS · 20/12/2015 08:37

Wouldn't it be easier to reserve 50p a week from an annual incremental increase in state pension to cover the cost. I guess by subscribing they would know who to contact in that event rather than 999.

ricketytickety · 20/12/2015 08:43

No, I would say this is something as a society we should not charge for and soak up as general nhs cost. It's something that could happen to us when we are older. Some elderly can't afford their heating bills, let alone a falling over tax.

Also, it might not be straightforward and needs to be dealt with by the nhs. e.g Why has the elderly person fallen over? Was there a stroke? A bleed? Do they need a hospital stay to have their bloods analysed or further treatment?

The nhs isn't 'free' either - we pay for it in our taxes. So this sort of thing is covered as far as I'm concerned. If they want to cut costs, why not look at the managers of the nhs that take home ridiculous salaries?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 20/12/2015 08:45

Hmm rather than easing the burden on the NHS perhaps they could invest more money in it. Instead of starting to privatise services and charge for what was previously free? The NHS is on its way out..very sad.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 20/12/2015 08:47

The fact that the current NHS service for the elderly who fall is crap doesn't make it right either. It should be better.

WhirlwindHugs · 20/12/2015 08:54

It's not an NHS cost though - it's social care. Social care is already mostly paid for individually, except by those who really can't afford it.

Social care not being good enough costs the NHS money in exactly these kinds of situations. Elderly people waiting for an ambulance for hours can cause medical problems they wouldn't have if they were picked up quickly. If the people who can afford it pay 50p a week more ambulances will be available faster for thise who can't afford it.

It's so naive to think we can keep giving pensioners everything for free. We have an unbalanced population, there are so many more elderly people living so much longer. Many of them can afford to contribute to social care and it makes sense that they do.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 20/12/2015 08:58

It's not naive. It's about priorities.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 20/12/2015 08:59

Plus of course people seem to believe the nonsense that we are a poor struggling country.

WhirlwindHugs · 20/12/2015 09:16

Honestly Fanjo, I am ansolutely not that kind if person. But DH will be going to see his grandmother in hospital today. She doesn't actually need to be there, we're waiting for her social care to get sorted after a fall. She's been there all week (mostly just waiting) which is rubbish for her and for anyone who does need her bed.

Social care for elderly people is a complete and utter mess and needs totally rethinking.

Some of that should involve more services like this which provide what is actually needed for a small charge and save the full kitted out ambulances for people who actually need it.

SaucyJack · 20/12/2015 09:20

Why should it be a priority for the country to pay for a private service for somebody like my grandad who has a 6 figure savings account tho? Would you be happy to see funds diverted from child protection or police budgets to pay for it? Cos we know that that's what would realistically happen.

It must suck to get to the point to need to pay somebody to pick you off of the floor, but that doesn't make it unfair or other people's responsibility to pay for it.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 20/12/2015 09:22

Or it should be diverted from elsewhere and health and social care should continue to be free and a priority.

A forgotten concept these days I know.

sparechange · 20/12/2015 09:26

My grandmother has one of these buttons and ive asked her what she thinks
She thinks it is a great idea. She has fallen before and had to wait for an ambulance, who also had to get the police to break down the door because the couldn't let them in.
The ambulance crew insisted on taking her to hospital, and she was kept in for several days.

She said that if it was someone who could help her up and sit with her for a bit to check she was ok, rather than insisting she go into hospital, she would pay £26 per time, let alone £26 a year

Also bear in mind they are already paying £20 a month for a subscription to the button so an extra £1 a month for this service isn't going to tip them over the edge into destitution.

WhirlwindHugs · 20/12/2015 09:27

Where though? Elderly people have had their pensions protected from cuts when virtually nothing else has been. The logic of that is so they can choose how to spend their money on their care.

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