Alibi to think this is disgusting re:elderly

[FairyFluffbum]

The new proposal for this council is to charge £26 a year to help the elderly back on to their feet if they fall. If they don't pay the charge they have to call 999 for help.

I think this is awful. Not only for the nhs as its a waste of time for a 999 call but for the pensioner itself.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/essex-council-to-charge-2592-lifting-charge-to-help-elderly-up-when-they-fall-a6778376.html

Sorry don't know how to link

[thelouise]

"I can't believe some people think it is right to have paid taxes all your life to support other people's NHS and social care, and then be asked to pay extra to be lifted off the floor when you fall."

I don't agree with the systematic dismantling of public services but I'm afraid I cannot bear the "paid in all our lives" rhetoric. It was never, ever than you put in to take out. There will be some people who can never pay taxes at all, they are equally deserving.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I can't believe some people think it is right to have paid taxes all your life to support other people's NHS and social care, and then be asked to pay extra to be lifted off the floor when you fall.

DH's and my parents worked about 80 years between the four of them. Didn't work through university (we did), the women didn't do paid work through their children's childhoods (we have). In our 40s, their children have done about 80 years of paid work already. We won't be putting our feet up any time soon. Well after the age they retired.

Now I value women's work at home and I understand they were doing the socially correct things during their lives. It doesn't make them more 'hardworking', 'deserving' and so on. They didn't fight in any wars and haven't paid as much tax as us (while receiving more in pensions, winter fuel and transport than we will).

Being humans in need does entitle them to support and healthcare but we need to stop prioritizing people based on perceived worthiness.

[dimots]

I wouldn't say its a tax on loneliness. Many family members would struggle with falls. My father is in his 70s and has medical problems that mean he is unsteady on his feet. My 77 yr old mother is fit & well & looks after him, but he weighs about 13 stone & she weighs about 7 stone. He is not alone, but if he fell to the floor there is no way my mum could lift him. She could call me - but I am a similar size as my mum so even with 2 of us we would struggle to lift him without a lifting aid. All their neighbours are elderly so could not assist. As it stands they would have to call an ambulance and wait for hours.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Sets a very bad precedent, but I see the devious (shitty) tactics:

• charge a "nominal" sum for currently free health care
  
• demonise the group it affects - people "rolling in money" from pensions / benefits / DLA etc while "hardworking" people have to subsidise them
  
  The suckers accepted that, so then add "nominal" charges for visiting GP, calling out ambulances
  
  Then no more free treatment to anyone who "brought it on themselves", so that's the overweight, anyone who ever smoked or drank alcohol ....
  
  And it's far too expensive to support those with lifelong disabilities or SN, so ditch them too...
  
  Bye, bye NHS. Died of a thousand cuts.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Not just if they can pay 26 quid

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Surely they should have the dignity afforded to them anyway.

[ouryve]

It's often a 4 hour wait for an elderly person who has fallen, from a 999 call to someone actually turning up. I'd be hoping the £26 would pay for a little more dignity than that

[laplumeofmyaunt]

But Coffee - they aren't being lifted off the floor in a timely fashion. I don't know if you've experience of this, but it's really distressing to see an elderly person struggling to get up off the floor (my DDad said he felt like a turtle or a sheep on it's back .) There is not enough money on the public coffers to do EVERYTHING, and until the govt sorts out the big corporations/billionaires and their tax, and everyone stops abusing the services we already have, if paying £26 per year means my 86 year old father is not having to lie on the floor for hours at a time, I'm all for it.

Not that we even have this service offered where we are, so it's a bit of a moot point anyway.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Well you see we don't think social care should be means tested or about what you paid in. Like the NHS.

[SaucyJack]

But the "all your life" thing doesn't apply to the current crop of pensioners who are averaging about 20-30 years of state support each, and are often taking thousands and thousands of pounds more out of the system than they ever paid in.

Something's gotta give, and 50 pence a week seems like a more than reasonable contribution to one's own care needs.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Hear hear

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

I can't believe some people think it is right to have paid taxes all your life to support other people's NHS and social care, and then be asked to pay extra to be lifted off the floor when you fall.

It isn't 'social care' it is a basic human right.

And yes, 'times are tough' - but not so tough that we can't bomb Syria at a cost of £125,000 per bomb, or sell RBS shares at a loss of £13 billion to the Treasury. We seem to have money to literally throw away on these things, despite the government debt having doubled in the last six years.

This is an utterly shameful way to treat people who have already paid for years into a system which they expected to support them in their old age, instead they are paying a private organisation extra money so they don't have to live in fear.

Thank God I won't make old bones.

[WhirlwindHugs]

Where though? Elderly people have had their pensions protected from cuts when virtually nothing else has been. The logic of that is so they can choose how to spend their money on their care.

[sparechange]

My grandmother has one of these buttons and ive asked her what she thinks
She thinks it is a great idea. She has fallen before and had to wait for an ambulance, who also had to get the police to break down the door because the couldn't let them in.
The ambulance crew insisted on taking her to hospital, and she was kept in for several days.

She said that if it was someone who could help her up and sit with her for a bit to check she was ok, rather than insisting she go into hospital, she would pay £26 per time, let alone £26 a year

Also bear in mind they are already paying £20 a month for a subscription to the button so an extra £1 a month for this service isn't going to tip them over the edge into destitution.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Or it should be diverted from elsewhere and health and social care should continue to be free and a priority.

A forgotten concept these days I know.

[SaucyJack]

Why should it be a priority for the country to pay for a private service for somebody like my grandad who has a 6 figure savings account tho? Would you be happy to see funds diverted from child protection or police budgets to pay for it? Cos we know that that's what would realistically happen.

It must suck to get to the point to need to pay somebody to pick you off of the floor, but that doesn't make it unfair or other people's responsibility to pay for it.

[WhirlwindHugs]

Honestly Fanjo, I am ansolutely not that kind if person. But DH will be going to see his grandmother in hospital today. She doesn't actually need to be there, we're waiting for her social care to get sorted after a fall. She's been there all week (mostly just waiting) which is rubbish for her and for anyone who does need her bed.

Social care for elderly people is a complete and utter mess and needs totally rethinking.

Some of that should involve more services like this which provide what is actually needed for a small charge and save the full kitted out ambulances for people who actually need it.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Plus of course people seem to believe the nonsense that we are a poor struggling country.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

It's not naive. It's about priorities.

[WhirlwindHugs]

It's not an NHS cost though - it's social care. Social care is already mostly paid for individually, except by those who really can't afford it.

Social care not being good enough costs the NHS money in exactly these kinds of situations. Elderly people waiting for an ambulance for hours can cause medical problems they wouldn't have if they were picked up quickly. If the people who can afford it pay 50p a week more ambulances will be available faster for thise who can't afford it.

It's so naive to think we can keep giving pensioners everything for free. We have an unbalanced population, there are so many more elderly people living so much longer. Many of them can afford to contribute to social care and it makes sense that they do.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

The fact that the current NHS service for the elderly who fall is crap doesn't make it right either. It should be better.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Hmm rather than easing the burden on the NHS perhaps they could invest more money in it. Instead of starting to privatise services and charge for what was previously free? The NHS is on its way out..very sad.

[ricketytickety]

No, I would say this is something as a society we should not charge for and soak up as general nhs cost. It's something that could happen to us when we are older. Some elderly can't afford their heating bills, let alone a falling over tax.

Also, it might not be straightforward and needs to be dealt with by the nhs. e.g Why has the elderly person fallen over? Was there a stroke? A bleed? Do they need a hospital stay to have their bloods analysed or further treatment?

The nhs isn't 'free' either - we pay for it in our taxes. So this sort of thing is covered as far as I'm concerned. If they want to cut costs, why not look at the managers of the nhs that take home ridiculous salaries?

[LIZS]

Wouldn't it be easier to reserve 50p a week from an annual incremental increase in state pension to cover the cost. I guess by subscribing they would know who to contact in that event rather than 999.

[LuluJakey1]

A 999 call costs more than £800 per call. If the council can do a service for £26 a year it is well worth it. £2 a month is nowt.