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AIBU?

I'm sure I'll be told this isn't bad enough for SS report but...

78 replies

HomeJames · 16/11/2015 17:17

What would you do?

Family member has a somewhat chaotic lifestyle that is impacting on her children. I and other family members have offered help/support but all has been rebuffed as attempts to 'get at her' 'make her feel bad' and 'interfere'. Her usual lines are 'I just don't have the same standards as you/ don't need to be held to your impossibly high standards' or 'I have a different lifestyle but the kids are happy enough'.

She split with the children's dad 2 years ago. Since then, she has had three boyfriends with overlap or a very short gap between relationships starting/ending. The children are introduced to the men straight away and two of them have been moved in to the family home after a month or so. The first one was nice enough. The second was a drug user and we suspected domestic violence. There was definitely a lot of screaming and rowing because neighbours kept telling us about it. We asked them to call the police if they heard anything but they never did, so no opportunities for authorities to get involved that way.

The latest one might be OK, we won't be introduced to him until he moves in probably. She picks the children up every afternoon from after-school club then takes them to his for tea and they sometimes stay the night there. Both children are behind at school and the older one is supposed to attend an early 'catch-up' class most mornings. Because they are out with the boyfriend or at other friends house most nights they have late bedtimes and little time to do any homework. They are also late for school quite often, so none of this helps with their learning. Between us, we're taking it in turns to do the odd pick-up/ breakfast at ours to offer some stability and a decent bedtime, but it's confusing for the children and not always possible with other caring and work responsibilities. We are also starting to worry that we are enabling the behaviour.

Finally, I suspect she may be using drugs herself. When the last boyfriend was living there, I popped over one night (kids all in bed) and they were both stoned and offered me drugs. I don't know if she is still doing this with the new boyfriend, but it might explain some of her mystery 'illnesses' where she cannot get home or get the kids to school and calls on help, and she has lost lots of weight.

House is filthy and smells, but probably not bad enough to be on social services radar. The children don't seem unhappy but they do seem confused about who all these men are, and don't seem to know whether they're coming or going with no routine. I think they're missing out a bit on their education, but perhaps neither of them is behind enough or has SN idenitified, so they're under the radar.

Like I say, we have all offered help, but think the time has come to stop enabling the behaviour because it hurts to watch it. I see a lot of threads on here where SS is suggested but there is a backlash of 'you clearly don't live in the real world, SS have real problems to deal with'. What other options do we have now? School, NSPCC. Kids are too old to be on health visitor radar.

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HomeJames · 16/11/2015 19:42

Thank you. I will call NSPCC. If they recommend talking to school, I will mention that to another family member who has done more school drop offs than me and might be better placed.

By the way, I don't think the children would or should be removed at all. I just think that she isn't accepting help from us and having someone with more authority point out that this isn't good and offer her some help (counselling maybe) is what she needs.

I appreciate that smoking weed is not a big deal in the scheme of things, but it does tend to make habitual users less motivated to say clean up or adhere to a routine. I know it takes me all the will in the world sometimes to gett supper on/ tidy up/ do the never ending stream of pickups, tea times and bathtimes. THat is with being a very boring person who is in most nights and therefore easily able to offer a stable routine.

Also for the record, she did not have an unstable childhood where this sort of thing was the norm. But I guess that means that she possibly has no insight into how detrimental it could be. I think she views herself as 'fun' and the rest of us as 'square and boring'. She thinks I have changed and become boring and 'turned into my mum' because I outgrew my wild early 20s, stopped drinking and partying and got married/had kids. I suppose my ideas of how to bring up children with stability etc is closer to my parents idea than to hers. I just don't think what she is doing can be passed off as a valid 'lifestyle choice'.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 19:45

I just don't think what she is doing can be passed off as a valid 'lifestyle choice'.

Why is it up to you though? OP you seem very stuck on her having "no routine", and just irritated she has different ideas to you

"She won't listen to me so I'll get someone to make her listen" rather than "she wants to live differently to me, it's not what I would do but it's none of my business"

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HackAttack · 16/11/2015 19:48

TaliZorah, your attitude that these children do not have a right to stability, routine and safety is very telling as to why you don't like Children's services but also a pretty good example of why they are needed.

Op reporting is most likely a good idea, there are a number of supports the family can be offered which will hopefully support the children and their mother.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 19:50

Hack They are safe. They are not being abused, and "stability and routine" is incredibly subjective. I don't feel someone should be reported because they don't fit someone else's idea of perfect.

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HomeJames · 16/11/2015 19:51

TaliZorah, you appear to be a lone voice shouting in to the wind here.

I don't like to see innocent children, related to me, suffering educationally and emotionally because their mum is too selfish to put their needs above hers. This could impact on them for their whole lives and it could be fairly easily sorted out with the right help from the right agencies now.

If you think introducing your children to a string of highly unsuitable men and taking drugs in the same house as them is normal behaviour, I feel sorry for you.

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HomeJames · 16/11/2015 19:53

I also want her to get help because she doesn't strike me as very happy.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 19:56

Home I don't think it's "normal" because I don't think normal exists. All families are unique and unless something extreme is happening we shouldn't impose our views on others. If you were implying I introduce my kids to different men and take drugs, that's not the case. However I don't think doing so immediately means someone needs other services involved

Anything could affect children. anything at all. Not doing their homework is hardly going to crush their educational chances, and you have a real thing about routine.

I think you're being very dramatic

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HackAttack · 16/11/2015 19:56

So you know for definite none of these guys is dangerous in spite of the DV concerns? You know that she has been under the influence of substances when in sole care of the children?

If these are even questions then they need investigating.

Routine isn't essential to life but there is endless evidence of how it benefits children.

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PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2015 19:58

I have by HCP been reported to SS after a suicide attempt.

11 months later and I have not had a single letter or home visit.

It did add to a very difficult time of my life.

The question I now ask myself is if the children need it. If I answer yes then I will report.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 19:59

Hack how do you know anyone isn't suffering from DV? Just because she has many partners doesn't mean the kids are suffering abuse.

It's a bit of weed she's not snorting cocaine off a baboons butt.

Shall we get SS involved every time someone does something less than beneficial? Parents who smoke, parents who let their kids have the occasional McDonald's, fat parents, parents who let their kids stay up late, pRebts who take their kids on holiday in term time...

I don't get all this pearl clutching just because the family isn't a nuclear mum dad two kids.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 20:00

Piperls Sad the way people treat MH problems sucks. I hope you're getting better!

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HomeJames · 16/11/2015 20:01

Oh well, I guess I'm not a moral relativist where children's wellbeing is concerned.

I'm not obsessed with routine. We're not actually particularly 'routine'-y. I think knowing where you're going to sleep at night and getting to bed at an hour that allows your developing brain to function at and benefit from school are a bit of a minimum standard though.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 20:04

Home that's YOUR opinion though. What makes it the right one?

Relativism is the only logical theory. Unless something awful is happening you really have no right to impose your views on her.

Kids staying up late will not lead to a crumbling society.

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HackAttack · 16/11/2015 20:08

No TaliZorah if you had actually read Op's post there were DV concerns, not because of the number of men, but because one was aggressive.

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romeomorningwhisky · 16/11/2015 20:09

I think a lot more people live like that than you would realise & it's just a normal lifestyle to them.

Unfortunately a lot of women do put their needs to be in a relationship/ not be alone higher up their priorities than their kids.

I don't see what SS would really be able to do if the kids aren't actually at risk.

Some people see smoking a couple of joints on the same level as having a couple of glasses of wine once the kids are in bed......

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gandalf456 · 16/11/2015 20:09

It sounds as if this person is going through a bad phase and is in denial. I had this also of a family member but I'm glad to say it sorted itself out and she did finally come to her senses. I would not personally report her to SS unless I genuinely thought there was an immediate safety issue but, like you, I might voice my opinion. It is obvious she is not going to listen to you, though, so the only other options you have are either leave it but keep an eye in case it gets worse or see if she will listen to anyone else.

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TaliZorah · 16/11/2015 20:15

Hack she's not with that person any more.

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LikeASoulWithoutAMind · 16/11/2015 20:16

Glad you're going to call NSPCC OP. They'll be able to advise you I'm sure.

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m0therofdragons · 16/11/2015 20:21

Deeply concerning that getting stoned is deemed acceptable by some. Different life to mine and the circles I mix in. Any concern I would speak to ss but more in the sense she needs support rather than kids taken away.

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HackAttack · 16/11/2015 20:22

Then I'm sure you are totally right and any investigation will show utter perfection and no need for support :/

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PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2015 20:24

I am in a much better place now, the ss referral was a wake up call.

My children mean the world to me, and even the suggestion that I needed the help off SS made me start taking my medication properly and go to counselling ect.

If anyone thinks somebody needs the help that ss can offer then I would urge them to first speak to the child's school or HV team.

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romeomorningwhisky · 16/11/2015 20:27

I don't particularly think getting wasted by any means when you're responsible for little ones is acceptable but it's life & people do it whether it be over indulging on one too many glasses of wine or a smoke.

If kids were classed at risk because of that there would be a long bloody list.

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NameChange30 · 16/11/2015 20:46

I'm glad you're going to call NSPCC, that sounds like the right thing to do.

Personally I'm in the camp that says if in doubt, call social services - as PPs have said, it could be the wake up call that is needed, and it could mean the family getting the support they need - it certainly won't mean the children will be taken away. A minority on this thread disagree, and I suspect we could argue it out indefinitely, but I think NSPCC will be the best judge.

FWIW it sounds to me as if the mother might have a personality disorder. It could explain some of her behaviours. If she does have a PD she and her children could certainly benefit from support. It would be dangerous to underestimate the negative impact of her behaviours on her children.

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chumbler · 16/11/2015 21:11

Nothing is too minor to report

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Unreasonablebetty · 16/11/2015 21:13

AnotherEmma- Don't blame this woman's shoddy parenting on the possibility of having a personality disorder. I find that to be incredibly offensive. As someone with a personality disorder I would like to tell you that none of the issues that are listed by the OP are things that my Daughter has to put up with because of an illness I have.
Theres no reason to find an excuse for this woman's behaviour when it means you are in turn being stereotypical about a whole group of people

And to homejames, you are completely right in what you have said throughout this thread, and routine really is quite important.

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