To wonder why people struggle to live in London.

[m1nniedriver]

Just honestly wondering what it is about London that makes people on, as I see it, huge salaries want to live in tiny flats just because it's london? The cost of living there seems riduculous. Some of the posts on here about the cost of housing just beggars belief! A tiny 1 bedroom flat for 300k?? If that's what you want then power to you but I do see posts with people say they are struggling and stressing every day to get by. Why would you not move to another part of the country that would enable a much better quality of life?

I'm not great at putting things across on posts so I hope this doesn't offend anyone its is meant as a genuine question, not having a go.

[m1nniedriver]

I guess it's relative disco. by London standards our income would probably be low, but where we are its probably the higher side of normal interesting stuff, thanks for (most) of the responses

[m1nniedriver]

Also if you are on a 'London low' income you probably couldn't afford to do all those things on a regular basis anyway. We have museums and galleries here, and west end productions frequently grace us with their presence which is wonderful, I love musicals . But each to their own.

[NuffSaidSam]

'Sorry, I wasn't asking why people live in London. I was asking why people struggle to live there'.

It's pretty much the same question though. They choose to live there because it's the best place for them, even taking into account any 'struggling' they may have to do. Although bear in mind that not everyone sees living in a small flat as 'struggling'.

There are people who are struggling because they are in the trap whereby London rents are crippling them to the point that they can't afford to move, even though they'd like to.

So that's basically the answer;

1. They want to live in London, struggles or not.
2. They don't want to live in London anymore, but can't afford to move.

[cleaty]

We have west end productions in the City I live in as well, but it is usually not the same as in London. London west end productions I go to see usually have a full orchestra and better scenery than in provincial theatres.

[HPsauciness]

I stopped 'struggling' and moved away. That doesn't mean I don't think London is simply the best and most exciting place to live, it still is for me and if I could have what I have here, there, I would move back. But I can't, and so for me, the struggle of having tiny living accommodation and the stress of trying to get childcare and the unreliability of commuting was all too much.

It's also true it's hard to go back though, now I have a four bed house with a child having a bedroom each, it would be hard to move back to a two bed, even though plenty manage it. Ditto the commute, it's now down to 10 minutes which gives me so much more time in the day. So, really, unless I suddenly moved into a high earning bracket, living in London just isn't realistic any more.

I was not a high earner though and so was really struggling by the time we left, in terms of being able to provide for a family it was fine as a single person for more than a decade.

[DiscoGoGo]

Ah when I said low income I meant low - just low. There's a lot of poverty in London and a lot of deprivation. It's a place of extremes. Some people are seriously struggling - they are in an entirely different situation and for a variety of reasons moving is easier said than done - and still there is the point of local networks family schools etc.

[manicinsomniac]

I am insanely jealous of anyone who lives in London. I just think there's nowhere like it (I went to new York for the first time this summer and was expecting to find a similar vibe but tbh, I didn't).

But I do kind of know what you mean. I say that I would give anything to live in London but can't afford to. But I suppose what I mean is that I couldn't afford to live there and still go to the theatre most weeks, spend the stupid amounts of money I spend on all the artsy opportunities there and keep up with everything the children need.

I live 45 minutes outside London and go in most weeks for theatres, dance lessons, to see friends, to visit stuff, to soak up the atmosphere etc. I wouldn't actually give that up to live there but be stuck in my tiny flat with no money to do what we want to do.

I want to live in London but only with money. Living in London with no money would be awful, I agree.

[cleaty]

I also didn't want to be dependent on a partner financially, to live an okay life. That would have been impossible for me in London with a family.

[Lndnmummy]

I often dream of moving out. We live in a tiny flat in zone 2, with great commute and fantastic schools and for that I feel very lucky. But trapped. To get more space we would need to move ALOT further out which would not improve our quality of life, whatever that means.

I would rathee move out all together. My dream is to move to Leeds where we could get a 3 bed house for less than we pay for this poky flat. I would pack my bags tmrw of i could.

[SheGotAllDaMoves]

I think commuting can do your head in.

For years we lived out so that our DC could have a really excellent standard of living including lots of outdoor space.

But the commuting was really eating into DH's soul. So we now split our time (though we are lucky to have a huge flat in a swanky area because we bought it before the insanity in house prices).

Now, I'll be honest I would not want to live full time in our flat in town. I really like the regular breaks we get for fresh air and space. But if we couldn't do that, I might swallow full time central London for DH as still the better option to 5 days commuting.

[PastaLaFeasta]

I agreed with pp that smaller homes don't always equal a struggle. We are in zone 4 in a good sized two bed but with two kids. Many see that as unacceptable, including the inlaws who don't have a clue about how things have changed since they had a young family and bought a huge four bed detached in the SE. We have a garden and driveway, train and tube in easy reach with motorways nearby as well as all that London offers including very good schools. Financially we don't struggle at all, we've saved a lot of money while affording home improvements, holidays and regular treats. The only thing we can't afford is a house with three bedrooms, even with a potential £250k deposit. A lot of parents are older so they bought when it was cheaper or worked longer to earn higher salaries before kids.

I suspect most people who really are struggling will leave or be forced to if reliant on state benefits or social housing. It seems sensible to leave but it's a scary prospect, an economic cleansing leaving behind the rich, old who bought years ago and those lucky to be in social housing.

[nameinlights]

Yabu. With my work I could live anywhere in the UK. But london is my home town and I do not want to start again somewhere else.

[Kennington]

Jobs
No commute
Art galleries
Accessibility to theatre and museums without planning it as a day out
I feel less lonely in a city.....

[ahbollocks]

Yanbu OP. I'm sure all you Londoners are delightful but I'm dumbstruck that anyone would want to live there. I've lived in Paris and Berlin and that was fine but deep inside I am a Welsh girl who needs windy beaches and dramatic mountain ranges and to be able to speak Welsh when I want to.
My parents are English and all my family have moved back to England but I am properly in love with Wales

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

Lots of jobs only exist in the capital OP.

You don't have to live there though. I work in London & live well away. My quality of life (I feel) is better because of that.

Wouldn't want to live there TBH, I find nothing attractive about it apart from the variety of cheap, good food joints.

But if people want to live there even though they don't have to, it doesn't bother me.....

[dreadingautumn]

I wouldn't live anywhere else because london is in my soul. In my opinion it's the greatest city in the world. I was born and brought up there and I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. I genuinely believe that we have the best quality of life for what we want. No, we don't have the biggest house with the biggest garden but we have everything else we could want. Other cities are nice to visit but London is just home.

[DiscoGoGo]

Ah so Wales is to you like London is to some of us!

It's sad this idea of "home", that feeling of belonging, of having your place in the world is becoming less something that people take into account or even really know about. Humans are creatures who band together in social groups - the idea that we are all islands or whatever, or our immediate family groups are - it's not how most people I know live. Most people have connections, I think. I expect it's more important for some people than others, and some people make new ones quicker while others take more time to bed in, but still, it's human nature I think.

[LikeASoulWithoutAMind]

Thanks for pointing out about trains LeaveMyWings - are they a new invention then?

My original comment was in response to the OP asking why everyone doesn't just move to another bit of the country. We did exactly that and it was great but when one job came to a natural end, the opportunities just weren't there. At the end of the day, about 97% of that industry is based in London.

Tbh I've lived in central London, I've lived properly rural, I've lived in a couple of other UK cities and now I live in commuter belt. Each has pros and cons which will appeal to/put off different people.

We chose to accept the commute to get green space and more living space and school places but we've also realised only one of us can do that commute as it's just not possible to get back for childcare, plus there's the time it takes (not to mention the cost!). I can totally see why for some families, the trade off to minimise the commute would be acceptable.

I love having easy access to London. There is nowhere quite like it.

[Scoobydoo8]

apparently people pay £200 a month extra in rent to be 10 minutes closer to the station

10 mins x2 x 7 = 140 pw = 112 hours a year (including hols) which is 14 working days a year! if my calculations are right.

[Janeymoo50]

My job moved to SE London/Kent. I had to move or find another job (not easy once you hit a certain age). It is soooooooo expensive to live, rent, buy etc but sometimes there is no choice. I wish they'd move up north where I can buy a house for 100k and retire early. Choice often plays little part in people living in one of the London boroughs....circumstance often dictates.

[hopelesslydevotedtoGu]

At the moment we are financially better off in London as my DH earns four times the salary he would outside London, and his work here is much more plentiful and interesting. Some industries are very london centric.

When we want to buy a family home the balance will shift and we will move away.

I bloody love London, but we are clear that we won't stay when the balance tips and we will get a better family life elsewhere.

[NewLife4Me]

I would like to know what jobs don't exist outside London?
besides the obvious ones like harrods, Tower of London etc.
Have always seen this on threads but as rarely been to london, can't even imagine.

[JassyRadlett]

It's interesting, reading these threads, how people's idea of 'quality of life' differs so widely, particularly around commutes.

For some, a long commute enables what they feel is a better quality of life which is worth the time spent on trains.

For others, including me, a long commute reduces quality of life because it eats into family time (and may also increase costs and stress around childcare).

I feel like I've got a good deal (outer London so not 'proper' London), a commute that is 16 minutes on the train with a 10-15 minute walk either end, easy access to green space even though our garden is tiny. Yes, you'd be lucky to get a 2-bed flat for £300k here, but the balance feels right for us.

[ephemeralfairy]

Well, I lived in London for 10 years, and DP for the last four. We have just (last week!!) moved to a big Northern city. We were done, burned out, we spent all our time and most of our money commuting. Our new flat is about three times the size and half the monthly rent of the damp shoebox we rented in zone 4. DP can walk to work and I get the bus, weekly bus pass is £17. Our quality of life is already so much better.
I know this wouldn't be the case for everyone though.

[JassyRadlett]

NewLife it's tricky - I work in quite niche field and don't want to out myself!

But for me - there might be a handful of roles in my field at my level in other major cities, and very sparse (no more than one or two) in other places. In London there are masses of opportunities as it's a field that tends to be tied to head offices, and at my level of experience only exists in major companies.

So while my sort of work does exist outside London, to move would mean tying myself pretty much to one employer and one role, with limited prospects for advancement, unless I was willing to uproot my family every few years.

Whereas in London, I've trebled my salary in 8 years, and could well double it again in the next ten years without doing anything particularly extraordinary. And I'll probably be doing much more interesting work, too.