To leave DP because I can't cope with his brother?

[LyonRoar]

He has just thrown a glass at me (I moved out of the way and it didn't hit me) and when I went to stop him hurting himself, he spat in my face. This isn't the first time. I just can't cope anymore and I'm worried he is going to hurt my DS's. I don't think he would do it deliberately but when he is angry he just flips out.

I love DP and I do want to be with him, I just don't feel like I can put my kids through this. My eldest heard the shouting and it woke him up. I'm now upstairs in my room with him, trying not to cry while he watches TV.

BIL lives with us full time. He's angry, bad tempered, violent, doesn't sleep and will not eat. He refuses to go to school and just seems so unhappy. He had an awful childhood living with his mum and step dad and social services removed him from there care when he was 9. His dad was in prison at the time, and after a few months in foster care he moved in with my partner (there is 20 years between them, so DP was old enough/in a position to take him in). He has problems since then, but they don't seem to be getting any better, only worse.

I love DP and I do care for his brother, I just can't cope with this anymore. I am supposed to be getting married in April, its the last thing I want to do right now. School are useless, the doctors won't help and DP is struggling with him. I don't know what to do!!

As for outside groups, school were able to get my son into a support group working with a psychologist and other teens who were troubled. Our local community centre was brilliant with him. They got him in volunteering with the younger youth club, then helping with general work setting up for other groups/helping in the cafe. He felt useful/valued, and it restored his confidence. He wasn't a 'problem child' there.

Our local authority has something called Support Breaks. Families who are having problems similar to yours are offered support, which involves the child going into temporary, part-time foster care. Usually weekends, for up to 12 weeks.

It has been very successful at keeping families together. Family members all get a break, but it is clearly focussed on working through things together, so hopefully would not be seen by your BIL as you abandoning him.

(I'm not suggesting everything would be fixed in 12 weeks, but if things were improving in that time? It can be extended past 12 weeks, too.)

Please speak to your local social services, and see if they offer anything similar. You need to be talking to them anyway - focus on "we're not sure we can keep on looking after him - what happens next?", make it clear that you are in crisis, now.

(I'm a foster carer. Social workers are, on the whole, very good, but horribly overworked. You want to be an urgent case now, while the right support could help you get through it together, not an urgent case because BIL has nowhere to live. We find that when placements are at risk of breaking down, additional support is offered that the previous week was impossible - not because someone couldn't be bothered, but because the funding is only there when you are in crisis.)

Does DP know how you feel? What are his thoughts? If you left with your little ones, would he stay with his brother? It sounds as though you don't want to give up on BIL, and you and your DP have already done so much for him, but are not getting support to do so. Become the squeaky wheel, keep pushing. And pushing. And making a nuisance of yourself. School should definitely be doing more.

MaryZ has great advice.

Good Luck. I hope you and DP get through this together, for the sake of all your boys. Pm me if you'd like more details (this is probably long enough already).

OP, has your BIL ever been assessed for ASD or ADHD? His behaviour could possibly due to an undiagnosed neurodevelopmental disorder.

At the moment there is a stale mate. Nothing is being done.

I wouldn't 'seperate' from my dp but id move my kids and I in to a safe place and work out from there what to do. It might push DP and BIL to realise that actually the situation is bad and needs consistent help.

Just because some one stayed with her kids and got through it doesn't mean it's the right choice.

I'd chose to have my kids in a safe home I wouldn't put my love for my man before that. There is no reason for there father not to see them every day and stay over.

But all that doesn't matter because if one of those kids get hurt BIL would have to leave anyway otherwise the kids would go in to care.

What Mary and Trudging have suggested. Your DP has cared for his brother since he was 9 years old, more than 5 years. You must have felt confident enough of this child's behaviour to have dc with your DP and similar to a relationship with an LP they come as a 'package'. Something has changed for this teen and it could be many things, including teen-related angst and hormones as well as whatever causes the bed-wetting and night terrors. You say he takes 'tablets' and these might need changing. Consider transferring him out of school and to a PRU, a student in 'trouble' and p/t at school, is an 'unwanted' student and I'm sure that's not helping this 'troubled teen' right now.

I have huge sympathy for you, your DP and this teen right now. Focus on this boy and your own dc will be ok.

You hope they will be ok float .....

The OP has already said this boy treats her dc well. I'm more than hopeful her dc will be ok. Has anyone given any rational thought to exactly where the OP and her dc are to move to? That in itself is problematic and would very likely be traumatic for OP's dc.

Gosh it sounds hard and you must be at breaking point. I don't think the splitting up of a family is a good plsn, either by sending the brother away (I'm sure you won't fool yourself as other posters have, that will be a massive rejection for him and damage him so much), or by taking your children away from their father.

Going back to SS and your gp is very important, with a clear message of 'we cannot and will not carry on in this way', it's not ok for them to be abandoning you in this way. Good luck

May I suggest you post on the Adoption and/or Fostering boards (under Becoming a Parent) for advice.

It may be that your BIL has been too damaged by previous experiences to cope with living within a family environment safely. He may be better served by some kind of Section 22(???) agreement.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm not at all convinced breaking up your own family is it.

Does DP have an SGO for his brother, or is it all just an 'informal' arrangement?

There's a lot of technical/SS/MHNHS advice being given and I don't pretend to understand all the Acronyms and ins and outs. What I do see is an elder brother, (who has a DP, the OP, whom he expects to marry next April and two infants), focussing on the needs of a mentally ill younger brother, providing him with home and support, whilst his DP is being abused and attacked and forced to flee to the infants' bedroom in tears. And I just ask where do the elder brother's deepest priorities lie?

I would have thought that if he intends to marry OP next April, she and his children would be his sole focus of attention and I worry that OP is being drawn, along with her children, into a very dangerous environment, where there is a high risk that she or the infants might be injured during one of BIL's rages. I understand that BIL is seriously ill, but his brother's home with a vulnerable wife and two small children is not appropriate accomodation for him. He needs, it would seem, skilled, professional medical supervision in appropriate surroundings. Why he isn't already there I have no idea, but OP and children should be out of there PDQ whilst the issue is resolved. From my perspective OP is being martyred by her love for the elder brother with his understandable commitment to his brother. But there is a price to be paid and the price is OP's happiness and security. It's a tragedy and I bleed for her. You poor, poor girl!

I agree with thisold

float it take one mis aimed glass,cup,kick,chair and one of the children are hurt. The SS won't give a shiny shit if it wasn't actually aimed at them.

And why should op be physically attacked for the sake of some one that clearly is very troubled and violent too.

Maybe a different type of school would help him. There's a type of school sometimes known as a Pru, or pupil referral unit, that is set up to support children and young people who can't cope in mainstream. It might be worth talking to the head about possible referrals to your local unit.

I think you need to sit down and discuss things with your DP. He needs to know how you feel. Agree talk to your GP/CAMHS/SS about extra support available.

Maryz does offer some good advice, and I am glad things worked out well for her and her family. I hope the correct support can be found to allow this to be the case for your family too.

However, can I offer the experience of being someone who had a very problematic, and at times violent, older sibling? I spent many years very angry that my parents "chose" to put his needs before mine and continued to allow me to suffer the experiences I went through. I was very distressed by his angry outbursts, which when I was younger were not aimed at me at all. I used to sit upstairs and wait for the problems to start, dreading it. That changed as I got older and he was physically violent to me on a number of occasions and spent a lot of time physically intimidating me with threats of violence. The general undercurrent of just waiting for things to kick off, the persistent conflict in the household was not a pleasant place to be. It damaged my relationship with my father in particular, as he struggled to acknowledge the impact of the decision to do "whatever it took" to try and help my DB. It has taken a long time to rebuild things. If I'm honest I still think they did the wrong thing for me, in the attempt to help DB and keep the family together. DB and I now have no relationship as I do not like or trust him.

I am not saying it can't work out well for you and your family, although I think you'll need a lot of help along the way. What I am saying is do not dismiss the impact it can have on the younger children. Your young BIL dies deserve help and it sounds like he has had it very tough. However, your DC do deserve to be protected and have a decent childhood too. On that basis, if you think it is having a negative impact on your DCs's, and things don't change, I don't think it is inconceivable that the best thing for them may be to move out for a while. Yes, it may be difficult being separated from their dad, but you may have to weigh things up and decide which is the lesser of the two evils.

Big thank you to everyone who answered I am staying put for the moment.

I had the conversation with Dp on Friday night. It was not bloody easy, and we both got really upset but he is going to start really pushing social services to help/support us. Not just for us, but to try and make things better for BIL as well, because he obviously is not happy right now either .

Dp has had a chat with BIL earlier, not in 'lyon wants to leave type way' but more in a 'we really need this sorting, it isn't good for anyone' type of way. BIL did get really upset, and did say he is trying at the minuet but promised if Dp arranged some counselling, and attend with him, then he would do his best to talk to them - which is defiantly more than we have had before.

Me and Dp sat down yesterday and went through the whole thread to try and get some practical advice. As I said, he is talking to social services and is going to say we are tempted to put him in care (even though it isn't true) so they do something. He is also going to ask about respite care (but maybe once a fortnight or something, rather than every weekend) and is going to put the idea to BIL in a 'it might be a nice break for all of us' so he doesn't think we are trying to ship him off. Dp is also going back to the GP to try and see if there is anything they can help with, and is going to be a bit more forceful.

I will try and some questions so to the poster that said about school, he is on some sort of plan and will be going to a specialist school now (a Pupil referral unit I think?) as his current mainstream school do not want him back (told us on Friday).

Also, to people that said about hobbies, he doesn't have many but he does do mixed martial arts (when he turns up), and likes drawing. He tends to watch a lot of tv/films in his spare time. He doesn't have a lot of friends at school (he can be quite difficult and flip so I think it puts people off). There are kids he talks to in school, but not out of school.

Also him and Dp do quite a lot of things together. They don't do stuff all the time (as there are our two boys as well), but he does take him football, the gym (when BIL will go), and they also watch tv together as have similar tastes. Dp also spends a lot of time just talking to him, which is nice. He also sleeps in his bed, usually twice a week, and they read together then (BIL can't really read very well, so Dp usually reads to him)

Thanks again, I think this was really the push we needed. Dp was reluctant to really push for support before as he doesn't want to give up on BIL and didn't want to be in the position where he was saying he was considering putting him back into care (even if it isn't true) just to get the support. However, reading this thread has really helped us to push for this support. I know we don't have it yet, but I am hopeful and maybe this will improve things

So thanks again

Thanks for the update Lyon
Awww, Mumsnet at it's best
Hope everything works out for you all, and you soon have more support that you all need

You could see if you have a local multisystemic therapy service near you... Try googling the above with your local area. Contact them and find out how you get a referral then pursue it doggedly. Out would be a great approach in your circumstances

Good luck Lyon, I hope you all get the support and intervention that you need.

OP I don't have any advice to offer but you and your DP sound absolutely lovely. I really hope you can get the help that you need and move forwards together as a family

Your DP sounds like a really good guy. I'm so glad you aren't leaving for now and really hope you get the support you all deserve, not least BIL.

Hi, I was a bit brusque in an earlier post, which I had deleted as it wasn't helping you or DP. Reading your update I feel quite humbled. You and DP border on sainthood in your care and concern for BIL but I'm still concerned for your safety and the safety of your two babes. Some years ago I was asked to teach basic IT skills to a group of students with impaired social skills. It was something for which I had little direct experience and had to develop my own way of dealing with their issues at an individual level. To say it was challenging is an underestimate but I learned much, not least about myself. You really need to push the "authorities" very hard and be quite single minded if you are to secure the proper treatment for BIL. NHS and local authorities have limited resources which is why you have to fight your corner with every ploy available to you, even "dirty and duplicitous"! Don't feel badly about doing so - it's just fighting your corner for BIL And like I said, and mean, in my view both of you are saints and an example to the rest of us! But look after each other, please! Do not let BIL's needs swamp your own lives. You too are to be valued and your primary responsibility is to each other and your babes. It might sound harsh, but BIL's needs must always remain secondary to you and your family. Please take great care of each other, not least so that you can also take great care of BIL.

Just wanted to wish you all strength as a family to get through this together. I think your last post gives some hope that your BiL may start to accept the help he so needs.