To leave DP because I can't cope with his brother?

[LyonRoar]

He has just thrown a glass at me (I moved out of the way and it didn't hit me) and when I went to stop him hurting himself, he spat in my face. This isn't the first time. I just can't cope anymore and I'm worried he is going to hurt my DS's. I don't think he would do it deliberately but when he is angry he just flips out.

I love DP and I do want to be with him, I just don't feel like I can put my kids through this. My eldest heard the shouting and it woke him up. I'm now upstairs in my room with him, trying not to cry while he watches TV.

BIL lives with us full time. He's angry, bad tempered, violent, doesn't sleep and will not eat. He refuses to go to school and just seems so unhappy. He had an awful childhood living with his mum and step dad and social services removed him from there care when he was 9. His dad was in prison at the time, and after a few months in foster care he moved in with my partner (there is 20 years between them, so DP was old enough/in a position to take him in). He has problems since then, but they don't seem to be getting any better, only worse.

I love DP and I do care for his brother, I just can't cope with this anymore. I am supposed to be getting married in April, its the last thing I want to do right now. School are useless, the doctors won't help and DP is struggling with him. I don't know what to do!!

[BoskyCat]

Children who have grown up with risk and trauma will often appear very empathetic and resilient, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are fine. They may have learned to behave in a certain way to reassure those around them or meet others' needs, but be carrying a long-term legacy of anxiety or low self-esteem.

I'm not saying that is always true, but it is for me, for one. I do understand the message that their dad "didn't choose them" but there's also the message that you don't see fit to protect them. If you have to choose, I think it's better for you to protect them and make sure DP plays a very active role and reassures them and spends time with them and is a fully involved dad.

[Grapejuicerocks]

So hard to know what to do for the best

[Eveysdad]

I know things can never be clear cut, and I don't want anyone to get upset by this but....
If DP is the dad to OPs children then, to me, he's putting his brother before the safety and we'll being of his own children and his partner. That just seems unfair to me to be honest.

[SecretWineBox]

That's my point exactly, Eveysdad

You're all advising her to take her children away from their father and not even give the father a chance to discuss it, as she feels that she'll be making him choose?

That's unfair and quite frankly, cowardly.

You need to have a serious conversation about this. Yes, he loves and wants to help his brother - however HIS CHILDREN should come before his brother.

It will be a difficult conversation, you may end up looking like the bad guy. Doesn't matter, you're children are more important than that.

If you leave and take the children and if their father agrees to it, how do you think those children will feel when they grow up?

[caitlinohara]

I agree with others that this doesn't have to be a permanent arrangement but yes you need to remove your children from the situation if there is the possibility of violence. I don't think anyone could blame you for protecting your children. You would never forgive yourself if something happened that you could have prevented. I think that's the first thing you need to do to be honest, and sort out the details later.

[Muckogy]

yeah - i would leave. no negotiation. just go because nothing will change.

[Keeptrudging]

I don't agree with posters saying 'move out' or 'he has to go'. This boy is to all intents and purposes their eldest 'child' and this is the first time he has done something this bad. What is needed is proper family help. Barnardos can be excellent, Educational Social Work can be too. CAHMS (in my experience) are ok for ongoing monitoring/counselling but not great at supporting when there is a real crisis.

I've been there with my son at that age (ADHD) and the anger/tantrums/throwing things. I also have a much younger DD. At times it was necessary to just grab her, jump in the car and drive off to give him time to calm down.

What worked (eventually) was talking to him when he was calm and working on him recognising his own physical signs that he was getting angry. It was reinforced to him that it was absolutely fine for him to get cross, but never ok to hit/throw things. He had agreed things to do when he started feeling cross, and got lots of praise if he did them.

In his case he had a pillow he could draw on and punch if he was feeling cross, or he could go and listen to music/play his drums/tear paper. The other part of this was that if he took himself off, nobody followed him to continue the discussion/argument. Anything could be discussed at a later time when he was feeling calmer.

During his worst time (about the same age as your BiL) I also made sure that he got 1-to-1 time with me, where we went to the pictures, or fair, or out for lunch etc. It was so important to keep trying to have a positive relationship, away from school/home stresses and where attention was solely on him.

He got through the worst of it and is great now. He can manage his anger and is working and independent. For him, school was a huge stressor. He was constantly in trouble, I was back and forth multiple times, they seemed at times hell - bent on piling on more pressure and negativity at a time when he was so low he felt suicidal.

With children who have had bad early childhood experiences, they often feel so unlovable that they are expecting rejection from people who care about them, and sometimes do things to accelerate what they think is inevitable so that they feel in control. Sort of like 'I'm dumping you before you dump me'. Push for support, the fact that he is nice with the younger children is reassuring, he's directing his feelings at the adults rather than them. I also taught my DD from a young age that sometimes her brother was too noisy/grumpy and but we would give him some quiet time and it would pass.

[SecretWineBox]

Surely you should at least talk about it? Just up and leave? That's crazy. I speak as a child of separated parents - visits and access are not the same as living with your Mam and Dad.

There was a very similar situation in my family years ago; at no point did anyone suggest that the father should be parted from his children.

This needs to be discussed at the very least before any bags are packed.

Lets face it, by leaving the father is being made to choose anyway. The implication will immediately be; we'll come back when the troubled teenager leaves, if ever.

[bluebolt]

I grew up in a similar environment but it was my mothers brother, she did not choose her brother over her children as the moment she brought him into our home she stopped being his sister and became his guardian. You need to bang and scream at SS.

[Keeptrudging]

Yes, SS may well find ways to support you all if it looks like they're in danger of having to find a foster placement for a 15 year - old boy.

[Haffdonga]

Of all the posters on this thread MaryZ is one of the few who has lived through something like this and perhaps worse and got through it. She offers incredibly wise and thoughtful advice to others going through similar.
Listen to Mary rather those who have not an inkling of what it's really like to be dealing with a very troubled teen.

And those who glibly tell the OP to leave the partner that she loves and wants to marry - how exactly will leaving the father of her children improve things? He would presumably end up with an access agreement where he would be caring for his own dcs and his troubled brother alone, unsupervised and without another adult's support once or twice a week. If I was the OP I'd prefer to be there with my dcs (and the man I loved) every minute of the day to minimise the impact of the brother's behaviour.

OP, even if BIL wont accept counselling, you and your dp could still benefit from family or couples counselling yourselves to agree strategies and techniques to deal with this and support each other.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I think you need to start with seeing that there are 3 children here in this family. Agree with the PP who said it's like a step-parent situation regarding this troubled teen. I know how very vulnerable young lads can be and think if there are ways of sticking together as a family that might be best overall for everyone - though if OP doesn't feel safe for herself and her DC then that might involve not all living together -at least for a while. She has a right (clearly) to feel physically and emotionally safe for herself and her DC. I do feel for the troubled young lad too though. Agree with PP's about looking into what further support must be available for him?
As someone else said very hard to know what to do for the best for everyone
Best of luck OP

[Senpai]

If it is PTSD then it may well respond to EMDR if he will do it. I have seen amazingly quick response to this treatment in my own DS who was diagnosed with PTSD aged 11. If it is that then the eating and the anger and violence issues should abate once the root cause is treated.

Careful with that. My mother tried it and it ended up triggering the shit out of her after the sessions, and it didn't really improve her PTSD. Not fun for anyone.

The only problem I have with that method is that it makes you completely re-experience the entire trauma while staring at a light. That could be good for some people with straight forward PTSD or for some people that deal with things by "talking about them".

But... If he has complex PTSD, and most child abuse victims do, it could be tricky because there's not one singular event to focus on. It's a multitude of issues.

It might work, it might make it worse.

[Fannyupcrutch]

This is going to be hard but its the only real thing you can do that may change his long term behaviour.

You need to surrender him to social services to be taken into care. The people that work for them, foster carers, homes etc, are trained to deal with this sort of behaviour. They will get him the help he needs, a special school if needed and you can still have contact. Ask them what intervention programmes they run. Do they have a " care afloat" programme by you ( or something similar) ? its a intensive approach that takes kids away from their triggers and gives them very focused 2 or 3 on 1 mentorship on various boats and water crafts. The children/young people typically progress through the programme and it helps to improve their behaviour and everything that comes with it. It also teaches them to be independent and budget, take responsibility for their actions etc.

[Fannyupcrutch]

This is them, it says that they do kids up to 11 but they don't, its up to 16.

www.careafloat.com/

There are lots of similar programmes across the UK. These people are trained in areas that you and your poor hubby are not. Its the kindest thing to do for you BIL as it will help him to build his skills for his rapidly approaching adult life.

[Senpai]

You need to surrender him to social services to be taken into care. The people that work for them, foster carers, homes etc, are trained to deal with this sort of behaviour.

In an ideal world, yes.

Realistically foster parents are woefully inadequate to deal with these things. All it's going to do is take some poor kid who's already barely hanging on by a thread and put him in a strange home with people who are going to call up the office to have him removed when he gets too much. He'll have no stability and he'll be bouncing from home to home, and with his outbursts you better believe he'll be in one place a few months at most. All it's going to do is confirm to him just how utterly worthless he is that his own family got rid of him.

So no, it is not the kindest thing. It's the worst possible thing you can do. The kindest thing she can do is remove her children from the situation if she fears for their safety. He needs his brother more than her or her own children need him right now. Small children will adjust and adapt, it's not ideal but it's the lesser of the two evils if he ever abuses them. They can be taken away if they ever come in with bruises from him. She as an adult can understand. When he gets better and learns to control his temper or at the very least learns to walk away instead of exploding, she can move back in.

Getting him in a youth program is good, yes. I can agree to that.

But dumping him off to be someone else's problem, and he won't stand a chance.

[Mrsjayy]

The op bil is 14 just a kid he had nobody except his brother not 1 other person they have taken the boy in as their own, people are suggesting he is just dumped thats not a solution. I get he is agressive and violent i am not saying the op and her children put up with at all.

[LittleBairn]

I wouldn't allow my small children to live in a house with someone as dangerous and volatile as your BIL.
Your loyalty should be to your children.

[Aramynta]

I know this sound obvious but your BIL needs councilling and professional help. You don't mention if you have explored this at all.

Also, does he have any hobbies? Perhaps something to instil discipline while allowing him to vent his frustrations.

As for you and your DC you may be better off out of it. Perhaps you and DP could remain together but live separately and help from a distance. This is the only compromise I can think of. Whatever happens you must protect your children

[BoskyCat]

Would it be possible to live very near to each other - 2 households, but so close that DP can pop in regularly and not be far from his brother, yet always be available - while you and your DC have a safe haven?

I know that is easier said than done and takes a lot of sorting out, but I can see that working. Your DC would not need to feel abandoned by their dad.

[MyNewBearTotoro]

If he was your eldest son I don't think people would be advising you move out or put him in care. Surely those should be last resorts and it doesn't sound like you are there yet?

Marys and keeptrudging give sound advice. I also think you need to push for more input from SS and find out if there are any local charities or youth groups which work with troubled teens and can maybe be more help than CAMHS.

Good luck. This doesn't sound easy on anyone but I hope you can all get through it.

[Keeptrudging]

Even when my son was at his worst, and my DD was much younger ( and potentially vulnerable), splitting the family up was never an option. This child needs more security, not less. What a very heavy burden of guilt to place on a child, that he has forced his family apart. From what the OP stated, he has not been a danger to the younger children.

He is in crisis just now. He is 14, with major issues AND probably hormonal. Even parents of 'normal' teenage boys would recognise the angry outbursts/throwing things. It's a developmental stage of 'hang on by your fingernails, keep telling them you love them, pray that it will pass soon, try to remember there is a lovely child lost in there'.

Sometimes you really have to fight to get help. Phone/email constantly until you get it. Go in to school and talk to them, see what they can offer. Schools can get in a confrontational situation when faced with challenging children, but if you ask for their help they may find a way to access support if they know he has a family who will work with the school.

[Loungeroomlizard]

In my experience teenage boys in this kind of situation very often wont accept counselling. But social services often have family support teams who can work with him in a supportive, friendly way and with you to help give you strategies to manage him. I would self refer. Make sure you tell them he was in care, and is at risk of going into care again due to him being a risk to the younger children. This is most likely to get you support. Lots of good advice on here too. I wish you all the best.