to ask if most of you realise the tax credits cuts affect people who work, not the unemployed?

[ssd]

yes, that's right, people who work get tax credits, you must work to get them

the cuts affect people in work, not people who dont work

I'm fed up reading here about the lazy unemployed who will get their tax credits cut...err no they wont.

[cosytoaster]

Tax credits will definitely be cut from April next year. I work but will lose almost £1,200. I'm not on Housing Benefit so that money won't be made up from anywhere else. The idea of Tax Credits was to ensure that people felt the benefit of working (and stayed in work paying taxes etc), from next April I will have just enough money to exist and there are plenty worse off than me.

[DadfromUncle]

Yes I know about it and I think it's wrong (didn't vote Tory).

However, I think the general principal that jobs should pay decent wages rather than all of us paying tax to prop up employers paying paying poverty wages is a good one.

As usual, the implementation chosen by the government is all wrong - because they're driven by dogma not proper evidence and they want to hit people where it will be popular with their supporters.

One of the worst problems we have is poor aspirant folk who will keep being hit by stuff like this, but will keep on voting for it in the mistaken belief either that they will be Lord Sugar one day or else out of a cap-doffing reverence for what posh people tell 'em they have to do.

[cosytoaster]

Oh - and I'm only reliant on them because I was made redundant from my reasonably well paid public sector job in the last tranche of government cuts! I really don't think Osbourne will be happy until I'm actually living in a workhouse.

[crazykat]

It's going to hit a lot of people very hard, made worse because they don't realise how bad the cuts will be.

We'll lose about £1200, if I was working more hours we'd lose more ironically. My dh works 10 hour days, away mon-fri and has no hope of getting a job where he's home every night, this and childcare costs means I can't afford to work full time.

There's lots of people, here and rl, saying they'll get a second job to make up what they lose, I don't know how as there aren't many jobs round here. What they don't account for is that unless they earn enough to not get any tax credits then they'll still lose the same amount of money even if they manage to earn more.

What really annoys me is that I have three friends, all have kids and none are working, who aren't bothered in the slightest as they won't lose any money. The amount of hb, income support (or whatever it's called now) and tax credits they get is just below the 23k threshold. So while we will really struggle to pay bills and feed/clothe us and the dcs, these friends will carry on as they are now. How the cuts will 'encourage people to work' is beyond me.

[WatchaGonnaDo]

I think what is most damaging is the misconception being perpetuated that WTC is being claimed by people deliberately working the min of 16 hrs per week for NMW to gain maximum benefits.

[sebsmummy1]

Child credit is not available up everyone with children btw. It is now dependant on income. As you were.

[BlueThursday]

After saucyjacks post I was thinking I was missing out on something that everyone gets but no

[RamblingRosieLee]

Yep same here, its maddness. We will be about that worse off too, but DC says we are want to be a nation of hard workers

[NewLife4Me]

A pp said if they dropped their hours they would lose 7k and not get any top ups.
Surely this is because you are rich enough not to be entitled to top ups.
There's no need to be mad about not needing top ups, most people would be happy.

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

The worst misconception is that WTC are being cut, but the NMW is going up, as is the taxable threshhold and this will make up for it. No it bloody wont.

"Britain deserves a payrise"

Only if you're a fucking MP.

[foslady]

Yep - lone parent of one and loosing £1300.....and where I work is a registered charity who as an added extra employ people to help the people we deal with to break out of the poverty trap.......whilst putting me in it.......

[pinkfrocks]

I have no idea. Have never had tax credits and don't know a thing about them. Am s/e and pay what the good old HMRC says they want me to give them.

[tabulahrasa]

"That said, I know a woman who works 16 hours a week and refuses to increase her hours as the government 'top up' her wages even though her partner doesn't work so is at home to look after the kids all day."

But it's 24 hrs that need to be worked for a couple unless he's in receipt of disability benefits.

[NewLife4Me]

Yes, it is amazing how many people don't understand the system at all.
As shown above and many other comments people make on here.
So many people will lose out and others will be surprised when they see it is their money which will go.

[scarlets]

It was a flawed system from the start, tarnished by error and fraud.

I agree with the point about silly Facebook and mum "businesses" that allegedly take up 16h per week but yield naff all.

There are definitely people working the bare 16h necessary to get their payouts. I worked with loads of them.

Employers, greedy ones anyway, have got away with underpaying staff.

It's a mess.

[PtolemysNeedle]

People have needed working tax credits because wages don't match the cost of living, but really, the entire tax credits system is crap. If the government wants to subsidise people it should do it through employers, because it does seem incredibly wrong that people can get a wage top up when they only work part time.

I too know people at work that won't increase their hours because they'll end up with less by the time their tax credits are adjusted, and one of my colleagues does a lot of overtime but doesn't bother to claim it for the same reason.

I think we should completely scrap both child tax credits and working tax credits and provide people with free childcare for the hours they work and commute instead.

[youareallbonkers]

It amazes me, people getting annoyed at having their free money cut. They have had it all this time to save them the bother of training or otherwise earning more money for themselves. Now they'll have to

[tabulahrasa]

Yep because people working 40, 50 or 60 hour weeks for minimum wage choose to do that because they're too lazy to train

[bearleftmonkeyright]

I think what is most damaging is the misconception being perpetuated that WTC is being claimed by people deliberately working the min of 16 hrs per week for NMW to gain maximum benefits.

^^This

[PtolemysNeedle]

It's not a misconception though, it does happen, and I don't think it's uncommon.

It won't be true for everyone that works 16 hours and claims tax credits, but if the system is set up to encourage people to only work sixteen hours by giving them less if they do more, then it's hardly surprising when people choose to only work 16 hours. The people doing it aren't to blame, the system is just bonkers.

[tabulahrasa]

"but if the system is set up to encourage people to only work sixteen hours by giving them less if they do more"

But it's not really, working tax credits decrease by about 2k per 5k of income, so yes they'd lose some tax credits...but they'd still have more income.

[Prelude]

Lougle's posts on this thread explain it very well.

"What makes me cross is that people don't seem to realise that the marginal taxation rate for people on benefits is epic.

If DH earns £1 (after his tax allowance is used up) he gets the following deductions:

£1 pre-tax
-£0.20 tax
-£0.12 NI
-£0.41 Tax credits (41%)
--
£0.27
-£0.175 Housing benefit (65%)
-£0.054 Council tax benefit (20%)
-----
£0.041

So, for every pound he earns, we lose 96% in deductions

[NewLife4Me]

I think employers quite often only give 16 hours too, because they know the employees will get a top up and be happy to take the work. They'll be hardly any 16 hour jobs when tc are cut.

[Prelude]

And this leaflet from Crisis r.e housing costs and the benefit trap.

Housing Benefits, not Barriers

[tobysmum77]

yabu people know and are aware of that.

however what is interesting is that I have been asked by a couple of people at work if it is going to affect me (we have a joint income of 85k , and while these people might not totally know what my salary is). So there is serious misconception out there.