To be annoyed the Tory 30 hour free childcare doesn't apply in Scotland!

[RagingJellyBean]

It's just annoying, to be honest.

I don't like the Tories, but if we have to have them the least they could do is throw us a bone up here.

30 hours free childcare when my DD turned 3 would be absolutely fantastic. I could actually afford to live a normal life again, why isn't in Scotland? 15 hours is great, don't get me wrong, but 30 hours would be PERFECT.

HOW ANNOYING!?!?!?!

[RedToothBrush]

I don't think it has an unfair advantage. Just a different set of problems.

But then every region has that.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

more patronising in that post Red, sorry.

[weeburrower1]

Hang on, are we honestly, seriously trying to suggest here that 'Scotland' and 'Scots' as a whole are doing nothing? It would absolutely amaze me that anyone could look at Scotland in the last 20 years and conclude that attempting all manner of things from universal access to education to trying to improve health outcomes to trying to democratically bring control of the economy closer to the people of Scotland constitutes anything other than positivity.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

who says I am defined by my relationship to somewhere or someone else?

Many people on this thread seem to be defined by feeling that they are superior to Scotland and giving it handouts.

I judge them for that and not all English people.

[RedToothBrush]

There is a whole page of fucking whinging and excuses and when pointed out...

Fine. Just fine.

[indyandlara]

ReallyTired, John Smith was never Prime Minister. If only he had been.

[SillyStuffBiting]

I know, the best prime minister we ever had.

[SillyStuffBiting]

*never

[unlucky83]

wee I live in Scotland and I think the SNP are getting it very very wrong...they tried their best to fuck up education (CofE/nationals), they made a complete hash of the 15 hrs (whoops - sorry 600hrs) - it was introduced in such a way that even schools and councils weren't set up for it...and passed all the incompetence etc on the providers....
The preschool I'm involved with have jumped through the countless hoops mentioned by a pp - the hoops that killed off the playgroups in their area - I mentioned the problems faced by school nurseries up thread - some playgroups in order to offer the 3hr 9.5 mins a day have to offer it in two block a day (a lunch break) cos they rent halls (from the council often) and other groups use them too...
The group I'm involved with - with all the others in our region - have just had to reapply to be allowed to accept funded children from this AUGUST. None of us yet know if we can...(but the council will provide funding for anyone who is currently 'on our books' - so we can offer children places but if we are unsuccessful they will be informing the parents of that decision, suggesting that maybe they would prefer to send their children to another provider)
Remember this is people's jobs we are talking about too - people who don't know if they will still be employed after the summer holidays ...
And the reason that this group which has all excellent/very good grades from all the relevant bodies (HMie/Care inspectorate etc) may lose the ability to accept funded children is because they can't offer to provide the hours more flexibly...
But actually all this irrelevant really -there will definitely be no playgroups in a few years -as the new rules coming in are that all nursery/playgroup managers will have to have a degree - a very specific degree. Apparently even a qualified primary school teacher wouldn't be qualified to run a playgroup for 3yos. The money isn't there - the hours aren't there -who is going to spend time and energy to get a degree to work part time and earn less than £10k pa...with no hope of increasing that.
And stepping away from the funding and the mountains of red tape to go back to the original playgroup format with one or two paid and a couple of parent helpers won't work. Because for a start you probably would have to get all the parents PVG'd and meet the care commission requirements with qualified staff members and ratios etc or you couldn't get insurance ...and why would a parent who worked part time/SAH pay even a small sum to get their child some social time and to get used to being away from their parent when they can have that for free and they never have to help out...

[OhBigHairyBollocks]

Regardless of what we all don't and do get in our different countries- the 30hrs a week is a shit policy anyway.

Hundreds of nurseries/childminders will have to stop taking government funded children- as a PP said, they pay a ridiculously small amount of money to what a person would actually pay for their child to go to nursery. Im well aware nursery fees are expensive, but this government "vote for us because it will all be fine" will absolutely ruin the early years settings and only put those private fees up.

[SillyStuffBiting]

The degree is for early years managers and I agree it's ridiculous. All that effort when really the most you will ever earn is around 25k.

I don't get all the angst about playgroups though. They can run without council input and offer whatever hours they want. It's only if you are in partnership with the council that you are obliged to provide the 600 hours.

My setting is in partnership for the 3 - 5 year old part but not the 1-3 year old provision so those kids, even the vulnerable 2s that would qualify for 600 hours elsewhere, are only offered 9 hours a week.

[SillyStuffBiting]

Add in the fact that every local authority has been left to implement the increase in hours in their own way it is a shambles.

Good in theory but the first steps haven't been easy or well executed, I dread to see how tenner ones pagan out.

[SillyStuffBiting]

*the next one pans out

I have no idea how that turned into that up there

[unlucky83]

silly could you still run for 9hrs a week without any older (funded) children? Cos that is what will kill playgroups...unless the parents have to stay.
Once you start wanting the ability for parents not to stay with children it starts getting complicated - and at the moment a lot of the hassle and expense of that is worth it because the funded children help pay for the staff/training/insurance/hall rent etc...(why in a nursery setting fees for that age group are huge). We restrict entry to under 3s at times to a degree purely so one extra doesn't effect our ratios to the extent that we need another member of staff present - and the fees don't cover the wages...
I'm also involved in a parent and child group (2 actually) - one is closely affiliated with the preschool group, one paid helper and the parents stay but it is really subsidised by the preschool (insurance, equipment, staff training, SSSC reg fees) even some of their wage when it is quiet.
The other is from birth, only one day a week and the parents stay with the children, it has no paid staff - it more or less runs itself. All the money that comes in pays for the hall rental and insurance, a wee bit to snack/tea/coffee, replacing equipment when the money is there. 'Fees' are cheap (less than £2 per session) so parents can easily afford to pop along for a coffee and a chat and it more or less breaks even...perfect for that age group but the parents have to stay -if they didn't it wouldn't survive.

[SillyStuffBiting]

We don't allocate any of the 3 to 5 funding to the younger setting. Parents pay £12 a wee for their 3 sessions. This is all the council would give us if we worked with them to provide the hours to the vulnerable 2s. We work hard to subsidies the under 3 provision through other funders and our own fundraising. We're attractive to funders because we work in one of the highest areas of deprivation in our area and provide parental support. It isn't a condition of accessing the childcare provision though.

The council supports the wider project through providing accommodation for us.

I suppose playgroups don't work under the same remit. So are councils expecting playgroup settings to provide 600 hours to maintain council funding? I assumed playgroups weren't involved I suppose although I thought they would count towards a qualifying 2 year olds hours.

[unlucky83]

Yes playgroups are very much expected to provide the 600hrs...our local council need them to do so.
But they also want them to be more flexible - be able to offer parents 2x 7.5 hr or 4x 4 hr or 5 x 3hr 10min -which notwithstanding difficulties in finding accommodation also would lead to increased rent (to a private landlord) for the same number of funded children, the same amount of funding over the year (and one day a week it seems like you might be paying a sessions rent for very few children -no matter what you have to offer the 5 sessions)
Our preschool take is from 2 yr 6 months in August so mainly for their ante preschool year. Although we do take them at Christmas and Easter (if we have space), have the odd preschool year child and if children are being deferred they more often than not will do two years with us.
At the moment they don't have enough school /council run nursery places - we do ante preschool year overflow for 3 primaries. There is a private nursery who do wrap around care -take their children to one of the school nurseries. They would be in a position to offer flexible hours -but doubt they will because as things stand they don't have to jump through as many hoops because they aren't providing the preschool education...
Last year we were full to overflowing - and mainly funded children (couldn't take any younger ones), the council increased the number of funded places we could offer to the maximum allowed by the care commission - but this year is slightly quieter - and the new funding contract is for 3 years so whether we get our full allocation of places ...or whether parents will be expected to go further away is anyone's guess. I would also not be surprised if we were offered less funded places with a clause that the council would expect us to take more if necessary.

We can't really take funded 2s - don't have the facilities - actually I have no idea where they could/do put them locally -but there probably aren't many in our 'naice' area. There is a clause in our contract saying if they ask us to we have to though -as long as the care inspectorate say it is ok -which I don't think they would.
It is one thing that infuriates me - talk of parental choice when in fact I think there is very little - a few years ago the council refused to fund a child with us (even though we were within our allowance of spaces) because they had lots of council provided spaces free...
Parents do want to come to us because we have great grades (best in the area I think) and we have a staff who go above and beyond - it is more than a job to them. To provide extras (and survive some years) we fundraise - we make them community events so we have community support. The other reason we are so busy is because when it was quieter a few years ago the council basically screwed one local playgroup - with school nursery opening hours and funding allocations etc - they went bust and now there aren't enough spaces...I have no doubts that if things quieten down again the council will screw us too (or will try at least...)