AIBU to challenge a colleague for awful behaviour towards pregnant woman outside of work

[QuinoaLenghi]

This morning I watched a heavily pregnant woman on the Tube stand for three stops before saying to the man in the priority seat that she felt dizzy and needed the seat.

The man said no. He aggressively stated that he didn't feel "great" either and that he didn't have to give her a seat. She pointed at the priority sign above his head and he snapped that if she couldn't cope with the commute she shouldn't get on the train. At that point two others offered the lady a seat. One told him he quietly that he should be ashamed. He stuck his finger up and sort of snarled then buried his face in his paper.

I know the man. He works in my office. He is a known twat. I am in his management chain but don't directly manage him. He didn't see me in the train.

Would it be unreasonable to challenge him at work? I suspect it would be especially as I am in his management chain but I really want him to get some comeuppance.

[Flossyfloof]

Op would not be doing it out of concern at all though would she?
Unpleasant-seeming incident, let it go.

[Flossyfloof]

Sorry my post was in response to Corygal.

[ApeMan]

For a start you may be leaping to judgment about the incident. I have gone to work with serious illness that needed a stay in hospital before now, literally ending up getting an ambulance from the work car park after I had completed the day's work, because I was worried about letting my colleagues or my family down - you just don't know what "I don't feel so good myself" means. He may seriously have been unable to stand for the journey at that moment for all you know.

Also I would be careful about repeating stories behind people's back, because not only might you be wrong, even if you aren't, it is certainly unprofessional, probably against your terms of employment, could be actionable for him against you or the company, and these things can have a habit of getting out of your control and turning into a nightmare - eg workplace bullying, being passed over for promotions or even constructive dismissal, which if (again) you are leaping to judgment, which you might well be, would be pretty terrible.

[Penfold007]

OP and those that noticed my stupid mistake, I'm sorry

[CSIJanner]

OP - do I have I have it right that you're within his lines management, but not his directs one manager? Would it not be for the direct line manager to approach him and ask how he was feeling? That might however mean you need to tell the DLM what happened however so you may like the "heard you on the tube this morning saying you didn't feel too great."

IF it was me however, I would leave with an aside that clearly his finger hasn't got arthritis as he was able to stick it up so clearly, but that's just me.

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

Though as an NHS employee , anything I do outside of work (not in uniform or even on the way to/from or on my non-work time) is considered to be actionable.

Yesterday, I drove past a group of youngish teen school pupils (I'd say 15/16 , old enough to know better)
One leapt into the road laughing (not pushed by the crowd , he leapt)

If I hadn't been in uniform, I'd have stopped and shouted Oi you little prick watch yourself. But I didn't.

Unfortunately with Seat Hogging Man, nothing much you can do (though I might be tempted to ask for his seat at every opportunity)

[LaurieFairyCake]

I would ask him if he wasn't feeling well.

And when he said he wasn't ill I would say loudly and clearly that priority seats on the tube are for pregnant women, the disabled and those suffering illness.

If he said he was ill I would instead say that I hoped he felt better soon.

As far as I'm aware none of the above is either unprofessional, abusive or in any way dodgy.

If you called him a malingering abusive cunt that would be dodgy.

There is nothing inherently wrong with drawing people's attention to facts and letting them know you're aware of their behaviour.

[SurelyNotEh]

and he snapped that if she couldn't cope with the commute she shouldn't get on the train

That to me suggests that his claims of "not feeling great" were, at best, completely exaggerated.

While plenty of people have hidden disabilities, and are not necessarily nice to others, they surely don't go snapping at others that they shouldn't get on trains if they are in need of a seat?

[worridmum]

herethere that is terrible advice if the sod would make a claim against the OP at tribunial he would win and the OP could be up for a gross misconduct offence (and would be in my place of work unless she had video evidence spreading nasty romours / gossip is a form of bullying etc hence the gross misconduct)

Its sadly not your job to police work collegues outside of work hours so I would say nothing as it could come back to hit you on the arse

[TheFlis12345]

I would politely ask him if he was feeling better. If he said yes (which he no doubt will as he was clearly faking it given his reaction) I would feign surprise and say I was glad he'd had a speedy recovery as he must have been exceptionally ill that morning if he had needed the priority seat more than a pregnant woman who was not feeling well. The smile sweetly and walk away.

People who act like dicks should be called out on it and let know that it is not acceptable.

[cathpip]

What TheFliss said! I'd also ask him if his middle finger was ok seeing as it suddenly stuck up at a funny angle too :), but then I hate people like that.....

[RedToothBrush]

If he said this, then it was an act of sexism.

Would this make you feel uncomfortable working with him, if you were pregnant yourself.

Although it wasn't at work, if it makes you feel like you would be treated badly or unfairly if you were pregnant then surely this is something you could raise as a concern at work with HR.

Its not a formal complaint as such, but if you did feel that his attitudes would potentially have an impact on staff or the business then I think you could say something. Its not the fact that he didn't move that's the issue, its his comment about the woman not getting on the train that's highly questionable together with him being abusive towards her. He was within his rights not to move, but he has to explain that politely, respectfully and perhaps help her in another way (maybe ask if there was anyone else who could give up their seat for example).

The type of work you do also makes a difference. If you meet clients or people from outside your organisation its also important, even if you don't wear a uniform. You still could be recognised by someone (after all YOU recognised him) and his behaviour could be viewed as offensive (after all YOU have been offended by is behaviour).

If you saw the same man making racist comments in public though not in the capacity of working for the company, I think there would be less of a grey area here. I also think the fact you are in his management chain also adds another dimension as then technically I would have thought you have a duty of care to other members of staff and to ensure that he is aware of what is appropriate behaviour. The fact it is not in work hours is a bit of a red herring in that respect.

Companies have started taking action against staff who post things on social media about their private life because they can be recognised and this reflects on the business. The social media provides the 'witness' or proof without someone being there. If anything the fact that you were there as an eye witness makes it worse because he is mixing in an area where other members of staff might be affected directly by his behaviour. The only thing you haven't got is proof - hence why it can't be dealt with as formerly as a comment on Facebook might be. But it does show that the boundaries about how you behave in your workplace and private life are not exclusive and you can not just use the excuse that it was outside work.

I don't think its about him getting his comeuppance. I think its about what you consider your responsibilities to be and whether you think his behaviour was enough that it could have consequences.

Its a difficult one, but I do against the grain a bit here in saying I do think there might be a good case to raise the issue as an equal opportunities awareness thing more than you think. If not against him directly, then perhaps to raise the subject more generally as an issue for the company about how staff behave outside of work and how they may be accountable for it even if they don't think they are.

[helengardenlady]

It is a grey area, but you don't have to be in uniform etc to be doing something that brings the company image into disrepute.

As above, a client could have seen him. If he spoke to a pregnant colleague like that at work then he would be creating a hostile environment for that person, covered by the single equality act.

[Nanny0gg]

Also it's very strange that no one offered their seats for 3 stops to an obviously pregnant woman - I've never seen this.

Really? My eldest is 34. It happened to me all the time when I was pregnant. Passing out used to be the only way I could get anyone to see past their newspapers.

I'd be surprised if anything had changed.

[RedToothBrush]

Also, I think I would be mindful of the fact that if I was aware of this as a manager, and this employee was then later was brought up on a disciplinary against a pregnant colleague how I could also be potentially liable for not addressing his behaviour as potentially problematic.

[MonstrousRatbag]

And not being funny but surely priority seats are the one seat you don't go trying to turf people out of?

Fair enough to ask. When I was pregnant I did, because it was about 50-50 being offered a seat and being ignored. I was told on a few occasions that the person in the priority seat needed it and accepted that with good grace.

[GatoradeMeBitch]

The OP has pointed out that the man is a 'known twat', she knows him and we don't, so why people are saying that he may have been feeling poorly and that he was victimized by a mean pregnant woman is beyond me.

And people sit in empty priority seats all the time. The elderly, the disabled and the pregnant should have ever right to challenge an apparently able bodied person in those seats - and I say that as someone with an 'invisible disability'. In fact as someone with an invisible disability I would (and have) get up and offer up my seat to an elderly, disabled or pregnant person. Because I'm not a twat.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

She did ask. He answered he wasn't feeling great.

He owed no more explanation other than that. roles reversed and you'd be supporting a woman's right to not divulge medical information to prove their right to the seat.

I'm. Not saying he was right. I'm saying he have an answer that had he not been nasty about people would or should have accepted with out further question.

[Andrewofgg]

Giles has a point there. OP If you want to make an issue of this, and I would not, you should only raise his rudeness, not his failure to stand where he may be in the right.

[Soduthen116]

The issue isn't that he's a nasty man. He obvious is.

However for the op to gossip about a collegue or to somehow pay him back as karma like some have advised would he massively unprofessional and potentially actionable.

Let it go op.

[morelikeguidelines]

What a piece of work! She should have said "if you can't cope with standing you should not be jn the priority seat ".

Glad the others stood though.

Not much you as manager can do. Except quietly and subtly treat him badly for rest of his life

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

I think it would be massively unprofessional to gossip about this

[morelikeguidelines]

Also what thefliss said.

[Theycallmemellowjello]

Agree with giles on this! He may have been selfishly hogging the seat, or he may have been ill and just handled the situation incredibly rudely. It's impossible to know. But given that he did explain he wasn't feeling well, I don't think that it's for the OP to question him about this - including pass-agg questioning about whether he's 'feeling better.' Just leave it - if he's a twat I'm sure there'll be other occasions to have a dig at him if that's what you want.

And btw no one is suggesting the pregnant lady did anything wrong - she asked for the seat which she was perfectly in her rights to do. But an ill person is perfectly within their rights to decline. In this case other passengers stepped in, so there was no problem in that regard.