Making Formula..

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

OK I will admit I make my formula the naughty way! I pre make a few bottles with kettle water as instructed, and then store them below 4 degrees c. Some people will accuse me of being a bad mum even for that, so I'm probably being a bit of hypocrite here....

But the way a couple of my friends make their formula is making me cringe....

they both have newborns, and they are putting the boiled water in the bottles, then putting the water in the fridge, then adding formula to the cold water as they go.

Now.... as far as I am aware, the whole point of the HOT water is to kill the germs in the formula as it isn't sterile...?

I haven't said anything to them, because having a 6mo myself I know how it feels to be told what to do with your baby.

But AIBU to think this is an arse about face way of making bottles... they might as well not be sterilising anything for all they are doing?

[IceBeing]

It is really hard to know what to say when someone seems unaware of the risks they are taking. When the risks are low I mostly envy their blissful ignorance. When higher I would say something but it is difficult. And of course if they are already aware and have made a concious decision then you pretty much have to butt out unless it actually happens to be against the law...(eg. not using car seats).

[Fishcotheque]

Fair enough, I'd never heard of it not being sterile until I happened upon an article online (never used powders) Do people not read that then Coffee? Do they know the risks, while probably pretty small, could be devastating? Perhaps it's not specific enough. "Could cause meningitis" would scare the shit out of me, "may make your baby ill" is more vague and people might be prepared to take a risk if the (unlikely) consequences are d&v (in their mind)

Lol at MILs-mine is desperate for me to wean DD-it's funny how they think they have it all worked out isn't it?! According to her at 4 months DD will be eating rice cakes. In her day they weaned at 6 weeks. I can't cope with that!!!

[VenusVanDamme]

Glad the chat went ok, most people assume it's because of the water. We were 'lucky' that due to DS being in scbu for a few weeks the nurses there did a formula demo for all the parents and explained it was due to the powder not being sterile. We had to get the demo signed off before we left hospital, might be useful if all new parents got this.

[DisappointedOne]

my friend puts her newborn in a separate room and baby sleeps on her front

37 years ago that was me......... It was the advice at the time to put them down on their tummies. My mum couldn't deal with my breathing so I went straight into a seperate room. Might explain our relationship now!

[DisappointedOne]

Yep... even more OMG when you find your mother in law wants to do all the above with my daughter, including sharing a bed with her..... Oh I can't wait to have to approach it with her!

what's wrong with that?

[Uhplistrailer]

Number 1. Glad the talk went well. I agree with other posters that the guidelines changed without much warning, so it's totally possible that they just didn't realise.

Number 2. Deaths from cronobacter contamination in formula are rare, but do happen.

Number 3. I used to make up bottles by putting a few oz of boiling water in a bottle, then all of the scoops I'd need in the boiling water and mixing, then measuring the rest of the water in another bottle from the cold tap and mixing it in. Perfect temp, bacteria killed, can be used straight away. For out and about, I'd use premade. Easy.

[HazleNutt]

"The correct way is whatever the formula tub says" - that's an interesting point. I checked the formula tubs sold in a random selection of countries (France, Netherlands, USA, Australia, Estonia, Sweden). The all say to use either lukewarm water, or to not to use water over 40C, or they don't say anything about the temperature of the water. Same brands.

Yes formula is not sterile, but it seems to me that other countries consider sleep deprived parents running around with hot kettles around babies a bigger risk than the potential bacteria?

[CoupDetat]

Coffee, your MIL really wants to do all of that? How do plan to approach that now that you've conquered the conversation with your friends?

Disappointed, I assume the OP doesn't want her MIL co sleeping with her baby and such. Which is perfectly fine as that is her choice as a parent. As I've said before no one should be made to feel rotten about their parenting choices.

Hazel, I've wondered about that too as it says on my tube to let the water cool off because of dangers of scalding. I've never scalded myself and have always used hot water because of bacteria and such!

[HazleNutt]

The point I was trying to make is that if OPs friends were living in the US or Holland, their way would be totally fine. For same formula and I don't think babies are that different either.

[alrayyan]

It is sad that every thread about formula attracts the odd weirdo who loves to attack and undermine other women. best to ignore the damaged saddos.

[Tanith]

"Babywalkers?? What happened to this thread?!"

You'll find out if you read it
It's to do with relative risks that parents feel comfortable to take

I think some of the wild accusations and assumptions have come from you, Op. Two babies died from poisoning in the US a few years ago, using a brand unavailable in this country.
Do you know how many babies are born worldwide every year? If you're concerned about those odds, then maybe you shouldn't use formula at all following the Chinese melamine scandal (another brand not available here).

I thought the EU deaths that someone else mentioned were due to an essential nutrient missing rather than poisoning. Again, a minuscule risk, but still a risk. The guidelines were changed after the single botulism case here and the baby concerned recovered.

[CoupDetat]

Ahhhh right, I see your point now. That does make sense though OP hasn't stated where her friends are from. In general the guilds ones have changed so often I'm not surprised there's so many different ways.

Alra, it probably is best but you get the goady ones who just...go on and on and have to pick at something. The next thing being the OP's choice in parenting and such which irritates me as no one should be made to feel inferior because of their choices.

[Mutley77]

Hazel, you're right, same in Australia and I have mixed powder with cooled boiled water for all of my 3. Not even a slight case of gastro enteritis thank goodness, but sterilised all bottles carefully to ensure no germs at prep stage and all milk discarded after an hour as milk sitting around does breed germs.

Venus, I don't think that's luck. I think prem babies are more at risk from formula bacteria (see disillusioned anarchist post) so it makes sense that parents in scbu would be advised.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Smug because your way is not going to kill all bacteria at only 70 degrees.
The water is boiled in order to sterilise the water. Why do you think babies under six months are td not to drink tap water. Why do you think old formula preparation guidelines said to use cooled boiled water.
Yes in the formula is not sterile but that is not why the water should be pre boiled.
Using water at 70 degrees is better than cool water but it's not fully effective.

[Singsongsung]

I bfed up to 6 months then found it easy enough to follow the advice. That is, we boil the kettle 25-30 mind before a bottle then make the bottle, cool it quickly and use it within 2 hours. We keep a stash of ready mix bottles in the cupboard for those moments when we're going out or have missed the moment to put the kettle ok.
You ABU as you are not doing it as per the advice yourself so are in no position to comment.

[lornathewizzard]

@ boobless feeding Coffee

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

DisappointedOne - what's wrong with that is she wanted to do it from 2 months onwards when us as parents have never co-slept.

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

coupdetat
Coffee, your MIL really wants to do all of that? shock How do plan to approach that now that you've conquered the conversation with your friends?

That's a whole different thread for relationships! lol. MIL who wants to do everything wrong who I am starting to run out of excuses for her not to babysit, and OH who won't stand up to her. fighting my own battles there :)

Tanith I think some of the wild accusations and assumptions have come from you, Op.

What wild accusations have I made? All I have stated is I am worried their babies may be poorly from not following safe instructions on baby food that isn't sterile. I by no means said they would die I simply asked MNetters how they prepare their feed and if I should approach my friends on the subject. Hardly wild!!

I am in the UK and my friends are in the UK. I haven't stated I am an expert on formula, neither are my friends, so I would always assume the best course of action is to follow manufacturers instructions.

My baby had reflux milk and that is prepared in a different way to normal formula, so I followed the instructions on that as it said.

Smug because your way is not going to kill all bacteria at only 70 degrees.

I never said that it would, but using cold water definitly doesn't work and isn't recommended by formula companies and isn't part of the instructions for preparing formula.

Clearly I wasn't being smug at all, as I managed to broach the subject with my friend and they were completely fine with it all and actually decided to change how they prepare.... maybe I should be smug about that

You ABU as you are not doing it as per the advice yourself so are in no position to comment. Fair enough my friend actually welcomed the info ....

[Singsongsung]

What I don't understand Coffee is if you know you're doing it the wrong way, and people doing it the wrong way upsets you to the point where you take to MN to post about it, why not change your approach and do it as per the advice?!

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Coffee is not doing it the wrong way. She's using the method the WHO recommend for making bottles up in advance and storing them correctly.

[tobysmum77]

uphstrailer I did the same, about as tricky as making a cup of tea, once baby was older I could time it and cool it easily. Going out/ nursery I used cartons.

With these threads though you always get the 'dangerous' comments when in fact the reality is that that there is a risk

There are risks to bfing too. My friend had a bf baby and both of our kids had the tummy bug from hell. I sent my ff baby round to my mum's for a couple of days. Friend was bfing between mopping up sick. Guess which baby got gastroenteritis?

[Tanith]

Coffee: you told Monkey that what she was doing was dangerous and could be deadly, for example.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Tobysmum, I'm assuming your friend's breastfed baby caught the gastroenteritis, although that isn't clear from your question. That isn't really an essential risk of breastfeeding as much as it's a risk of not having somewhere else to send your child when you're ill.

No one should be saying that ffed babies will definitely get gastroenteritis or whatever. There is a higher risk of them doing so, that's all. Which can can be lessened/removed by scrupulous hygiene.

[LauraMipsum]

For the first time ever I'm posting without RTFT (sorry) but OP, do tell your friends. When I switched from breast to formula I was making it up with cooled boiled water as I thought that was what you were meant to do. About a month later I saw an NHS leaflet that said there could be bacteria in the formula which are only killed off by hot water. I wish someone had told me before! (DD was fine though)

Since then I do 2oz freshly boiled water, usually while making a cup of tea for myself, add the formula and mix, then top up with 4oz from a larger bottle of cold boiled water which I store in a sterilised bottle and replace every 12 - 24 hours.

[Hobby2014]

I haven't rtft but I'd say something as it could potentially be dangerous.
Even just saying 'oh I didn't know this way was ok, I thought you had to do it like this to kill bacteria' That way it opens the conversation.

Was I in the wrong telling a friend that the car seat she had wasn't safe as its leg was on a underfloor storage? She thanked me and got it sorted. Better to possibly offend but baby is safe.