Making Formula..

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

OK I will admit I make my formula the naughty way! I pre make a few bottles with kettle water as instructed, and then store them below 4 degrees c. Some people will accuse me of being a bad mum even for that, so I'm probably being a bit of hypocrite here....

But the way a couple of my friends make their formula is making me cringe....

they both have newborns, and they are putting the boiled water in the bottles, then putting the water in the fridge, then adding formula to the cold water as they go.

Now.... as far as I am aware, the whole point of the HOT water is to kill the germs in the formula as it isn't sterile...?

I haven't said anything to them, because having a 6mo myself I know how it feels to be told what to do with your baby.

But AIBU to think this is an arse about face way of making bottles... they might as well not be sterilising anything for all they are doing?

[VenusVanDamme]

For the poster asking about the perfect prep - best thing we bought for DS. Lots of things not as useful but this is worth every penny (Amazon had it half price recently) as it means every bottle is made fresh. If out and about its pre-made or make in machine then go out if his feed is due within an hour.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Cherryblossom, are you saying that sterilising bottles, using hot water to mix formula and refrigeration are not necessary? I'm surprised at that advice.

[TheDisillusionedAnarchist]

I think the issue is they changed the guidelines and didn't make it clear exactly why they changed them and what the risk is. It is the usual assumption that parents cannot be trusted to make informed decisions if actually given information.

What they should have said is that formula powder can be contaminated with a bacteria called cronobacter sakazakii this can cause meningitis in infants with around a 40% mortality rate and may result in serious neurologic issues in survivors. Although cronobacter sakazakii infection is rare (around 1 in 100000 infants) it is up to 8 times more common in premature and low birth weight infants and for all babies making up formula in water over 70 degrees eliminates the risk.

Parents can then make their own decisions as to how much risk they are prepared to take, it isn't very likely your baby will get a cronobacter infection but if they do the consequences are fairly dire. If a baby is newborn and/or especially vulnerable parents can decide to take extra precautions.

Cronobacter deaths are rare but at Christmas 2013 2 babies died within a week of each other in the US from Cronobacter from contaminated formula, it is not like it never happens. The guidelines were changed due to deaths in the EU.

[BertieBotts]

We have clean water in this country which is unlikely to cause serious illness. We also have adequate health facilities and general knowledge about hygeine. Even if you totally ignore guidelines, it's likely that the worst that will happen is an upset stomach, and we are lucky to live in a country where diarrhoea in babies is not a death sentence. So, no, in the scheme of things it is pretty much unlikely to matter. That's your decision to make. But don't claim that the reasoning is made up, because it isn't. Just because you personally haven't experienced something, it doesn't make it untrue. I might as well say that I've eaten loads of hamburgers but I'm not overweight, which is true - it doesn't mean that the kinds of ingredients in hamburgers don't contribute to obesity.

BTW, this is nothing to do with big brother, big brother is surveillance, and currently nobody will intervene even if you decide to feed your baby coke and gravy instead of milk, until the point they become malnourished. This is advice and guidelines on best practice, information enabling parents to make whatever decision they think best, nothing more, and a good thing.

[Cherryblossomsinspring]

I'm not advising anyone anything. People can make up their own minds but in many places you only sterilise the first few months or even just use a dishwasher from the start. As long as you are sensible and clean to a good standard it's highly unlikely you would even cause an upset tummy.

I think you will find that someone might just intervene if you were to feed a newborn coke or gravy in a bottle. Like social services maybe? My big brother comment was maybe not strictly correct use of 'big brother' but I was referring to the official bodies over guidelining everything.

[BertieBotts]

But they don't, that was my point. Unless the baby is seriously malnourished, SS have no right to object to what you feed them. You really can feed them coke from birth if you want to. I wouldn't advise it, ever, but we live in a free country and as long as it's not causing direct severe harm, nobody will intervene. If you're doing it in hospital, they'd probably have something to say, but in the privacy of your own home and baby appears perfectly healthy, nope. Totally up to you. No baby police are going to swoop in and take them away.

[Tanith]

You're being ridiculous, Bertie.

If you feed a new baby coke or gravy, you'll find yourself faced with a manslaughter or murder charge, never mind Social Services.

[ender]

There's clear evidence that more bottle fed babies are admitted to hospital with gastroenteritis in the first year of life than BF babies.
We don't know if its due to bacteria in the milk powder and v hot water not being used in preparation because samples of the milk powder aren't routinely taken when a baby gets ill.
Not sterilising bottles properly could be a factor, or perhaps there's something protective about breast milk. The might be other causes we don't know about.
Fortunately its rare for babies to die of gastroenteritis in this country. Everyone has to make up their own minds based on the level of risk they're comfortable with.

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE :) :)

Hello everyone

I've glossed over the last few pages - I've been asleep and boobless feeding my baby in between all this while nursing a sore jaw from wisdom tooth removal. Apologies to the few who criticised me for leaving the thread, but I felt I had got the advice I needed in terms of approaching my friends or not.

Breastfeeding debaters can beggar off - I couldn't care less what you think, get on with your own lives. It's like somebody asking for a beef burger recipe and a bunch of vegetarians butting in and telling them to use broccoli. Just piss off. Seriously... piss off. Heard enough of you.

And breathe.....

Baby walkers?? what happened to this thread?!

SO I TALKED TO ONE OF MY FRIENDS!!

She came round this morning and I didn't even have to do anything untoward, as she managed to call in while I was making some bottles for going out.

Asked her if she got fed up of waiting around for the kettle to make up formula and then cool down ready for baby...etc. As expected she said "no I just have a cool jug of water for it...etc" Told her I'd never read any info on that, she mentioned other friend had told her, and it turns out she had never really studied the formula box instructions at all, which is odd because she is a bit of a worrier who does things to the T, so we had a chat.... she's going to start doing it with hot water now. She didn't realise why it needed to be boiled in the first place. She assumed it was just the tap water that was unsafe.

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

By the way this thread seems to have gone I wouldn't be surprised if nobody gives a shit I've even spoken to one of my friends now

[ScorpioMermaid]

disappointedone he does every other night for going to sleep but if he hasn't eaten much and I give him cows milk hes up all night. I can't win. he just settles better on the formula and sleeps through. It's maybe once or twice a week.

[nottheOP]

When I had DS (3!!!!!!! years ago) I used another forum, shocker I know. Lots of US women on there and they made up their bottles without sterlising, or boiling. They'd make up a jug using nursery water www.nurserywater.com/ and keep it in the fridge for that 24 hour period. I believe that in Aus they do similar.

I did as you did OP, my family have done it in a variety of ways. All the babies are healthy - I think we're very cautious in the UK.

[AndNowItsSeven]

70 degrees isn't hot enough to kill all bacteria so yabu and a bit smug.

[Cherryblossomsinspring]

All good then:) I like your comment to the bf debaters. Lol! Glad you got your opinion and worry across to your friend without causing any problem.

[fattymcfatfat]

that's great news! hopefully she will pass the info on to your other friend.

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

As usual the whole thread became various women attacking each other and making wild assumptions and accusations. Even strange conspiracy theories.

Bloody internet (or some people that use it), should have known better than to even bring the topic up.

[Fishcotheque]

Some of the Mums in my postnatal group do this-ie they think the boiling of the water is done to sterilise the water, not the powder. So they have bottles of cooled boiled water to which they add the powder as and when. I don't think it's common knowledge that the powder isn't sterile. Doubt the formula companies want people knowing that their powders may contain bacteria.

OT a bit - As a new parent I'm realising there are lots of OMG moments re what other people do. Eg my friend puts her newborn in a separate room and baby sleeps on her front and has cot bumpers. I can't get my head around how she isn't anxious about it!

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

How am I being smug?

Get a grip.....

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

fattymcfatfat Hopefully! I'm not going to approach the other friend on it immediately, just if it comes up. Likliehood is my friend this morning will inform her, as it was her who gave her the advice! :)

OT a bit - As a new parent I'm realising there are lots of OMG moments re what other people do. Eg my friend puts her newborn in a separate room and baby sleeps on her front and has cot bumpers. I can't get my head around how she isn't anxious about it!

Yep... even more OMG when you find your mother in law wants to do all the above with my daughter, including sharing a bed with her..... Oh I can't wait to have to approach it with her!

[Mutley77]

Thank you the disillusioned anarchist, a really factual and sensible post. Outlines the risk exactly.

[QueenFuri]

In 2006 I was told make 6 or in DS1's case 8 cool quickly and put in the fridge which I did then heat in a jug of boiling water. DS2 in 2010 I put the amount of sterile water in the bottle cooled quickly and put in fridge. I then heat the water up again in the microwave added powder shook until it was the right temp. I hated doing bottles when he was about 7/8 months I started buying the readymade cartons!!

[MrsHathaway]

Well done OP - sounds like you got the balance exactly right between giving enough information but without lecturing. Hurrah!

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

I don't think it's common knowledge that the powder isn't sterile. Doubt the formula companies want people knowing that their powders may contain bacteria

The back of my SMA formula says this in big bold writing;

"Whilst the product is made under strict hygienic conditions, it is NOT sterile. Failure to follow instructions on preparation and storage may make your baby ill"

There it is, in black and white, or yellow and blue on my tin :)

[BathshebaDarkstone]

That sounds so dangerous! YANBU

[liquidrevolution]

Well i make my bottle s in one batch. I boil water add to bottles,measure put milk powder and put in cannistersfor when bottle is needed. Store all at room temp and I dont reheat to add milk. But up to 7 months I discarded mixes bottles not drunk after 2 hours. Its the way i made bottle s for my brother 15 years ago and the government advice has only changed within the last five years.

There have been 11 cases of infant botulism since 2000, with no deaths and some of these are possibly honey related. Source NHS website.

The ready made milk contains an additive that can cause tummy upsets. Source , my DD projectile vomiting every time she had ready made.

Horses for courses and all that.