Making Formula..

[CoffeeAndBiscuitsPlease]

OK I will admit I make my formula the naughty way! I pre make a few bottles with kettle water as instructed, and then store them below 4 degrees c. Some people will accuse me of being a bad mum even for that, so I'm probably being a bit of hypocrite here....

But the way a couple of my friends make their formula is making me cringe....

they both have newborns, and they are putting the boiled water in the bottles, then putting the water in the fridge, then adding formula to the cold water as they go.

Now.... as far as I am aware, the whole point of the HOT water is to kill the germs in the formula as it isn't sterile...?

I haven't said anything to them, because having a 6mo myself I know how it feels to be told what to do with your baby.

But AIBU to think this is an arse about face way of making bottles... they might as well not be sterilising anything for all they are doing?

[tobysmum77]

Yes there is no ideal answer because heating enough to kill bacteria by definition will denature. The main issue with not letting the water cool a bit is therefore scalding..

[BabyMurloc]

All the advice changes so much all the time it's a wonder anyone keeps up. Tbh maybe it did change and they just assumed I knew because I had other DCs. In all fairness if I was at home I did boil, make, then quick cool most of the time but I used cold water when out/at 3am. I genuinely didn't even think. Instructions on formula were not very clear back then! (it has been a while lol)

[CultureSucksDownWords]

BabyMurloc, if you have a look at the instructions on the formula tub you will see that they describe using hot water, with a warning about the risk to your baby of becoming ill if you don't.

The cold water method you describe was what used to be told to parents, Im not sure when the instructions changed. The risk is a very small one of some potentially nasty bacteria in the formula powder.

[muminhants1]

Cherry Blossom you can laugh - the steriliser was there so I threw the stuff in it. I knew it was irrational :)

[BabyMurloc]

I was told sterilise the bottles then add boiled water. Was told these can then be left for up to 24 hours then add milk powder when needed. I was always told the milk powder is fine from packet but the sterilising means bottles are fine and pre boiling water means the water is fine?

Been told this several times over several years by diff health visitors in diff locations. I've always done it this way for several kids and never had any issues? I never reheat the milk though so always given cold (yes I'm a terrible mother but they ALL screamed when I heated it up. Seems they detest hot milk like their mom does)

[IceBeing]

Actually it depends on what you mean by nutrients....

You don't do too much damage to the food value of protein, sugar, etc by hitting it with boiling water. But you can denature proteins etc. and strip them of their more complex functions.

Breast milk has lots of functional elements as well as food elements. Hence the immune boosting and illness mitigating properties. If you added these elements to formula it would be pointless as they would loose their function once heated above body temperature.

Also some of the vitamin related additives won't actually survive intact.

Fundamentally if you are heating it up to kill bacteria (by removing the function of their internal proteins etc.) then you are removing the functional components of the formula itself too.

[sycamore54321]

I don't think I am overly PFB but I will absolutely continue to sterilise anything to do with formula milk until my child no longer needs formula. At almost ten months, he would now be happy to lick the wheels of the pram if let! However I believe there is a difference in environmental germs, which I am happy to let him experience, and the perfect bacteria-nurturing ecosystem that is warm milk - lots of heat, moisture and sugars to allow bacteria to flourish, combined with starting with non-sterile milk powder.


Also, unlike many, I find sterilisation to be next to no work at all - it is the scrubbing of the bottles, teats, etc that I won't miss. Bunging the freshly washed gear into the steam steriliser is no hassle at all.

[HazleNutt]

I remember a MN thread where someone was asking abut sterilizing stuff for their xx month old. I briefly considered if I was a terrible mother not doing it. Then looked at the xx month old DS, sitting on the floor, licking the dog..

[MrsHathaway]

I think the only nutrients that are affected by the heat of the water are the new prebiotics, rather than the proteins and fats, etc. I have a feeling there's an issue with specialist digestion-friendly formula as well, to do with the thickeners or something.

If you could destroy normal nutrients by heating them above 70 degrees then you'd never use an oven or a hob ever.

[Cherryblossomsinspring]

Muminhants1, did you use a sterile tongs to hand the cutlery to your son and what about when his hands touched his cutlery or even his finger touched his mouth? Lol. Sorry I shouldn't laugh. On my first I remember wondering if I should sterilise some tongs to use to hold the bottles while I put the powder in and then feeling panic that my other hand was touching the formula carton that was touching the powder that was touching the air before going on the bottle! Or did you ever put the microwave steriliser of all the sterilised bottles BACK IN because you realised you husband had cracked the seal 10 mins ago so the sterile environment had been UNSTERILE more than the 10 seconds it would have taken to get the bottles out and start filling.

We all need our heads examined. The stuff I catch my babies at now involving poo and animals and nappies and dusty corners I didn't know existed makes me wonder what this obsession with sterile is really all for. Maybe us to feel control more than minimising a rare risk.

[Hobby2014]

Sofas I read that using the water immediately kills nutrients in the powder, so you have to wait but no longer than 30mins and that's if you're boiling at least 1 litre?

[MrsHathaway]

There were little boxes you could buy with three compartments for the powder. So from what you say that's not accepted practice any more? This was back in 2003.

Depends what you mean by accepted practice. The little compartment tupperware things are great for "out and about" where it would be impractical to take a tin and a scoop, but they do lead to a misconception that it's only the water and bottle that need to be sterile. Using the compartment thingy to put a measured "dose" of powder into freshly boiled and slightly cooled water would be the gold standard for preparation away from home. Easy at eg toddler group, your mum's house, etc, but a bit more involved at Costa or the doctor's waiting room.

[tobysmum77]

And its just one specific example the risks we all face are absolutely individualised is my point.

[tobysmum77]

Yes but it's harder isn't it?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

I think I was making another point about risk . That what you were saying was a general risk about babies staying in homes where there is something like gastroenteritis going round. Not a specific risk of breastfeeding in itself. It is of course possible to separate a breastfed baby from its mother if it is prudent to do so to avoid infectious diseases.

[muminhants1]

Oh and I should say I always sterilized everything. Including cutlery. Until my son was 2 (as he had a bottle at night until 2, which is another reason why I was a bad mother)!

[muminhants1]

Trying to remember what I did. I occasionally used the cartons or the disposable bottles if I was out or away but they are very expensive and I used them very infrequently.

I used to make up a day's bottles in advance and keep them in the fridge for use at home. Sometimes. Most of the time I made them up when I needed them. We had a separate kettle so we didn't boil the water more than once - is that still the advice now?

Most times when I was out and about, I took a bottle of boiled water, it would gradually cool down while I was out and when ds was hungry I put the powder in the bottle and it was about the right temperature to drink (not cold but nowhere near hot anymore either). There were little boxes you could buy with three compartments for the powder. So from what you say that's not accepted practice any more? This was back in 2003.

[tobysmum77]

Culture I'm not saying anything really about bfing, but making a point about risk .

[Hobby2014]

I haven't rtft but I'd say something as it could potentially be dangerous.
Even just saying 'oh I didn't know this way was ok, I thought you had to do it like this to kill bacteria' That way it opens the conversation.

Was I in the wrong telling a friend that the car seat she had wasn't safe as its leg was on a underfloor storage? She thanked me and got it sorted. Better to possibly offend but baby is safe.

[LauraMipsum]

For the first time ever I'm posting without RTFT (sorry) but OP, do tell your friends. When I switched from breast to formula I was making it up with cooled boiled water as I thought that was what you were meant to do. About a month later I saw an NHS leaflet that said there could be bacteria in the formula which are only killed off by hot water. I wish someone had told me before! (DD was fine though)

Since then I do 2oz freshly boiled water, usually while making a cup of tea for myself, add the formula and mix, then top up with 4oz from a larger bottle of cold boiled water which I store in a sterilised bottle and replace every 12 - 24 hours.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Tobysmum, I'm assuming your friend's breastfed baby caught the gastroenteritis, although that isn't clear from your question. That isn't really an essential risk of breastfeeding as much as it's a risk of not having somewhere else to send your child when you're ill.

No one should be saying that ffed babies will definitely get gastroenteritis or whatever. There is a higher risk of them doing so, that's all. Which can can be lessened/removed by scrupulous hygiene.

[Tanith]

Coffee: you told Monkey that what she was doing was dangerous and could be deadly, for example.

[tobysmum77]

uphstrailer I did the same, about as tricky as making a cup of tea, once baby was older I could time it and cool it easily. Going out/ nursery I used cartons.

With these threads though you always get the 'dangerous' comments when in fact the reality is that that there is a risk

There are risks to bfing too. My friend had a bf baby and both of our kids had the tummy bug from hell. I sent my ff baby round to my mum's for a couple of days. Friend was bfing between mopping up sick. Guess which baby got gastroenteritis?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Coffee is not doing it the wrong way. She's using the method the WHO recommend for making bottles up in advance and storing them correctly.