AIBU this is unfair MN Jury - opinions please (money)

[FantaIsFine]

Hi, apologies if I should post under money but I'm after input/traffic.

I'd really like to hear if anyone thinks this is reasonable as an arrangement.

Adam (let's say) and Eve (let's say) have been married for some years with 3 children. Eve has no income as SAHM, Adam is sole earner.

Adam and Eve have no joint bank account. Eve has no allowance, even housekeeping allowance. If Eve wants any money to spend, Adam provides her with cash to cover her specified requirements. All of the household bills etc are managed by Adam.

Would anyone be comfortable with this?

Thanks in advance!

As an aside, what would be the rough estimate from others as to a reasonable supermarket weekly shop for a family of five (one of which just 1 so formula/baby food/nappies etc included)

[TheoreticalOrder]

No, not right on many levels. Apart from anything else, it is way too controlling.

When I was a SAHM, DH the sole breadwinner, we had a joint account. (We still do). He pays all the bills, I spend whatever I need from it. I don't have to justify any of it. Occasionally he would query stuff to be met with a retort "if you think you can do a better job of it, by all means do it yourself".

We are a family of 4 and spend about £160 pw on food, toiletries, wine etc.

[FantaIsFine]

Thanks everyone for replies, really appreciate your input. I'm trying to keep up. In particular:

Soduthen - no gambling/reckless spending problems etc
ImperialBlether - never heard of Entitled To, thank you!
Aussiemum - exactly that for coffee/lunch say and unable to accept short notice invitations for cash reasons sometimes. The wider financial situation isn't something I can really go into on her behalf other than that she is in the dark

Is financial abuse actually a known term?

[CrystalCove]

Yes financial abuse is a known term. I've worked with women like your friend and it can co exist with other forms of abuse eg emotional.

[Viviennemary]

It exasperates me when I see thread after thread about this kind of financial abuse. Of course it isn't acceptable but why get married and have three children by a mean controlling horrible man. Women must take control and not leave themselves so vulnerable.

[Sconejamcream]

Yes, financial abuse is real. Check out women's aid or google it.

[RiverTam]

agree this is financial abuse. Second that she gets in touch with women's aid.

[Soduthen116]

Nicki well done you

What a moving post.

[Oswin]

Viviennemary its not as easy as that. It starts all nice and happy. Probably fine with the first child, then the conversation comes about how childcare would be too expensive if they had more children so the more children so the woman gives her job up.
Then it usually starts. Its not straight away normally it just gradually gets worse.

[Soduthen116]

Vivienne life really isn't always that clear cut though isn't it.

Most women or men don't set out to date and marry psychopaths and abusers. They change gradually becoming more controlling while the partner becomes more controlled.

It's a gradual incidious process.

[FantaIsFine]

NickiFury by the way congrats on your escape.

My battery is about to die but I will look forward to seeing what additional responses there are in the morning.

Truly, many thanks again to all and apologies for any gaps in info, I'm a bit paranoid to give too much away

Vivienne, I salute you for your solid boundary setting capabilities and congratulate you on never having found yourself in a situation within which you feel vulnerable and that control has been removed from you. (That is from me, not my friend). You are very lucky indeed.

[BeaufortBelle]

It's financial abuse and I say that as someone who exists in a very traditional relationship.

We have never had a joint account and my DH pays all the bills. When we met I earned more than him and had the capital. Then I had babies and his earnings overtook mine and I gave up work. I still had enough capital in my current account for about two months of family outgoings: food, clothes, coffees, general expenses, etc.

My DH never ever wanted a joint account. Neither did I particularly.

I used to buy everything and put the receipts in a box in the kitchen. At the end of the month I used to add them up and give DH a little bill. He then wrote me a cheque for what I had spent. He never ever questioned one single penny I had spent - admittedly I'm not the last of the big spenders.

Back then, about 12 year ago, I used to spend about £80-£100 on grocery shopping every week. I also paid for school dinners, uniform, clothes, hoover bags, irons, towels, etc. - all household stuff.

And then I went back to work and DH has never once asked me what I spend my money on and has continued to pay the bills. I pay for the DC's trips, my car, and general household stuff, dentist, DC's clothes, pets, DC's activities etc.

DH doesn't answer to me and I don't answer to him as far as money is concerned. We have enough but we are both quite careful.

I could not live the life your friend is living. I would not live the life your friend is living.

[NickiFury]

Vivienne do some reading on domestic abuse why don't you? Here's a good place to start Women's Aid you may well think you are no nonsense and far more capable than us poor saps that become enmeshed in abusive symptoms but you're not. Quite simply you are just not very well informed, you should do the decent thing and educate yourself (there's extensive material freely available with which to do so) instead of posting ignorant, blaming attacks on those who have been domestically abused. I would be embarrassed to be as ill informed and posting publicly to that effect as you are.

[Viviennemary]

I am just amazed that this abuse is still going on to this extent in the UK in the 21st century. And these are modern women not our great grandmothers. What is the answer then?

[youareallbonkers]

Why works eve marry him, have children and not agree financial stuff up front?

[NickiFury]

To my mind, more education. When talking about relationships and sex education in school, abusive relationships should be a big part of that. Information on what they look like, not at primary school and but certainly secondary school. I reached my mid thirties before I understood that my situation was abusive. I didn't know, I thought it was just relationship troubles that everyone suffered. I came on here and got pointed in the direction of various books and websites that helped me to see that what I was going through was serious abuse and it was a recognised thing. I will certainly be telling my dd and have already started with 12 year old ds.

[meandjulio]

'Fuck no. Thats financial abuse, and Adam is clearly a giant cock.'

Couldn't possibly put it any better

[Tangerineandturquoise]

If Eve is uncomfortable then it is not a situation to be comfortable with.
If Eve was happy you wouldn't be asking the question
And that says it all
Eve needs to find solutions that she is comfortable with.

Vivienne has a very clear cut view on life- she's lucky or she's Adam.

[FishWithABicycle]

Adam doesn't respect Eve.
does Eve have self esteem issues? Why is she putting up with this?
If they are partners who love and value one another, all money should be held jointly and considered to equally belong to both with equal decision powers and equal personal spending money from what is left over after bills etc.

[BeaufortBelle]

That's a really thought provoking post Nickifury. I think you are right but am ashamed to say that the necessity for it wouldn't have occurred to me before reading it. It's something I learned from my mum, who learned from my grandma, who learned from my great grandma and that I have always taken for granted.

Just thinking about it, my 17 year old daughter has always been given some of her own money, has a building society account and a bank account and been empowered to make spending decisions. She is used to controlling some of her own money as I was and sees me make decisions about my own money and has heard dh and I discussing money and what to do with it.

[sandgrown]

Fish .as an aside .holding all money jointly does not always work if you have a partner who spends randomly or an ex who makes off with everything you own like mine did! I would never share a bank account again.

[NinkyNonkers]

Big no here. We set up a joint account as soon as we set up home together, by the time we had kids we were well used to it. Both our salaries went in etc. Dh brought all the capital to this house, I own my own flat that is rented out. I have been a sahm for 5 yrs, and manage the finances here.

I would guess at around £80-£90 per week for 4 plus dog.

[NRomanoff]

About 8 years ago I had to account for everything spent from our joint account. But so did DH, we could only just afford our bills so had to be careful. I was fine with this, its just what needed to be done.

Now we have a joint account for bills and a joint for savings. We also have our own accounts where we spend what we want. We are lucky as we have plenty of spare income, so never had the situation where one is skint and the other is not. Money for the kids comes out of the joint account. Kick boxing lessons, days out etc.

Personally I would never be a sahp, because I am not willing to give up my financial independence to anyone. Not even DH who is lovely. He does more than his fair share around the house and with the kids. But you never know whats going to happen. Nor would I want DH to be a sahp. In the event of a split I would not want him to appear as the primary carer. So we work it between us. Everyone is different and has a different way of working things. As long as everyone is happy, its fine. But Eve is clearly not happy.

Adam is financially abusing Eve, its as simple as that.

[fiveacres]

I sometimes think Nicki is my twin!

I was married to Adam, although in fairness (ha) Adam did give me a fairly generous amount of cash per week.

Great. I could buy myself something pretty with it.

[PicaK]

I think it should work that Adam and Eve make a joint decision that one of them will provide childcare and one will work. So then any earnings are joint. Bills paid, money set aside for annual bills/holidays etc - then equal spending money for both.
Anything else would just feel like controlling abuse for this Eve.

[PicaK]

Oops - sorry 1 working, 1 childcaring IF they want and it suits them both. Am absolutely not suggesting someone should be at home.