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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

police who ignored a 17 y/o girl with mental health problems when she reported a rape should not have been given the option to retire on their pensions

223 replies

agentEgypt · 22/05/2015 08:08

This is the story about Hampshire police who ignored this 17 year old girl when she tried to report a rape, and instead said they would charge her for perverting the course of justice and this made her self harm more and attempt suicide.

However she did get legal help and eventually they settled out of court. However 4 of the cops involved were given the option yo retire!

IMO they should have not been given this option, legally charged and have their entire pension removed.

OP posts:
BathtimeFunkster · 23/05/2015 07:59

Ashamed of pointing out the bleeding obvious?

That you are concerned with protecting abusive men and the organisation through which they perpetrated that abuse, and not at all with the victim of that abuse?

Original poster
agentEgypt · 23/05/2015 08:02

Agree with bath 100%!

OP posts:
TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

straighttothepoint · 23/05/2015 08:14

When doctors get struck off they don't loose their pensions... Why should police. Every industry has some bad eggs. But there aren't the resources for the police so fuck ups will happen, either by error or incompetence. And Theresa May is screwing the police, creates a very bad environment, and is Responsible for the rules and guidelines.

But for every shit policeman, I bet their are 200 great police officers. For every mistake, there are hundreds of acts of kindness, perpetrators bought before courts, people saved and do on.

I just don't get the crap you lot dole out to the police. Save your energies did the corrupt MPs who increase their pensions despite abuse claims, tax avoidance, expenses mismanagement etc.

TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ForalltheSaints · 23/05/2015 08:26

The option to retire seems to have been available to police possibly facing charges or disciplinaries for a long time, and a reform to end this would annoy the Police Federation but please a lot of people outside the police.

Original poster
agentEgypt · 23/05/2015 08:27

So we should just put up with ones that are guilty of gross misconductgross misconduct as there are plenty of good ones?

Public sector pensions are not at pot like private ones, don't see why they shouldn't be touched for ones that fail to do their job properly and are guilty of gross misconduct. As it stands this poor girl only got 20k and that was funded by the tax payers and the police retire on their gold plated pensions.

That's not going to stop police behaving like this and will put off more people reporting rape.

OP posts:
straighttothepoint · 23/05/2015 08:31

The police have to deal with people often at their worst. If they continuously gave people lying and making false allegations, then they are going to lose the will to deal with people. I think there are a lot of women making false rape allegations, and combine it with drink and drugs is a recipe for disaster.

In 2010 just 12% of complaints were upheld - that speaks volumes.

straighttothepoint · 23/05/2015 08:34

That is of all complaints, not just rape related.

TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BathtimeFunkster · 23/05/2015 08:39

I think there are a lot of women making false rape allegations

Why?

Do you have any reason for that, or is it just that women are known for being scheming liars?

TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TTWK · 23/05/2015 08:44

Ashamed of pointing out the bleeding obvious?

Ashamed of accusing me of being a supporter of church paedophiles just because I have a different view to the removal of police pensions and how to deal with useless police officers than you do. Especially as I've spent years as an unpaid school governor and been involved in the protection of vulnerable children.

You are exploiting the misery of child abuse victims to try and make some spurious point on the internet. Shame on you.

But back on topic and away from ranting hysteria, once again I refer to the Sharon Shoesmith / Baby P case. Everyone was calling for her sacking, and she was sacked. A decision that ended up costing the taxpayer £650K in compo, money that has to come from somewhere, and may have come in part from child protective services.

straighttothepoint · 23/05/2015 08:46

The police face all sorts of shit.

Look what happened to lee rigby two years ago today. How many of you have jobs with that level of threat against you?

Binkybix · 23/05/2015 08:46

But there aren't the resources for the police so fuck ups will happen, either by error or incompetence. And Theresa May is screwing the police, creates a very bad environment, and is Responsible for the rules and guidelines

See, I can see that problems with resources are probably an issue but this does feel like any accusation against the police being treated as 'yes, but....'

I really think that in cases like this there really shouldn't be any excuses made. I'm sure there are a lot of great policemen/women. I also know of at least a few occasions when they lied and intimidated (and ultimately had to back down as caught out in their lies). Anyone who wants a strong, fair and trusted police force should not be saying 'yes, but' in these cases. They should be fully admitting the wrong-did ng and not seeking to pass the buck.

There was another thread a while back where a police officer was defending other policemen/women even when they'd been shown to be liars. Nothing to do with resources - just lying and abusing their power.

TTWK · 23/05/2015 08:51

TTWK - even when the police decide they believe you, the victim is treated like the least important person. Like an annoyance rather than a human being with feelings. Again - that's from current personal experience.

Of course that can happen, but Mrsstarlord posted that she knew someone going thru the process at the moment and the victim had nothing but praise for the police. So I hope and think things are changing, although I fully accept that you've been thru a bad experience and will have a different view. I hope things work out positively.

It's a shame you think bathtime's post was reasonable. I fail to see how anything I've said could lead to an accusation that I am sympathetic to child abusers within the church!!

Still, there you go.

HapShawl · 23/05/2015 08:52

In the TV programme the detectives, one of the officers on the special sexual offences team (and yes, I know the programme was designed to show them in the best light) said that the police are trained to question everything, not to believe, to assume people are lying until proven otherwise. But that they now acknowledge they need to treat victims of rape and other sexual violence completely differently. it's only just started to happen in one area of the country

the posts on this thread that are saying that the police no longer get this stuff wrong on a large scale, or that their current treatment of victims of rape and sexual violence is justified - you are part of the problem. You are part of the reason that rapists get away with what they do on a vast scale. You are adding to victims' trauma by saying that their treatment by the police and justice system is justified. And you are doing it whilst completely ignoring the evidence about the situation that has come from reputable bodies.

TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HapShawl · 23/05/2015 08:56

I know lots of police officers. I have enormous support for the difficult work they do and I have only some understanding of the danger they face daily. But none of them thinks that the way they (the police generally) deal with sexual violence is ideal.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 23/05/2015 08:57

I think there are a lot of women making false rape allegations

Goodness, that's a stubborn rape myth isn't it? Despite all evidence to the contrary, you'll always get someone come along and say it, on every thread about rape. As TBR says, have a look at Keir Starmer's review into the actual facts, and try not to let your prejudices about women get in the way.

The difference between the 'every industry has some bad eggs' idea and what is happening within the police is that bad eggs aren't institutional beliefs, whereas racism and sexism have been shown to be so. I believe things are getting better, but there are enough dinosaurs within the system to make more claims like this a certainty.

There have been threads where serving police officers have stated baldly that they don't bother with a lot of rape cases because 'they know they're all lying'. When pressed, one in particular couldn't provide any reasons as to why they held this belief, but that the belief was true, she was a woman.

TheBlackRider · 23/05/2015 08:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HapShawl · 23/05/2015 08:57

X-post TBR - that wasn't a response to your post! I agree with binky too

PuffinsAreFictitious · 23/05/2015 09:00

Straight... Iirc, Lee Rigby was in the army? I would suggest that they have a more dangerous job. I was a psychiatric nurse, want to discuss the dangers in that? Friends are paramedics and fire officers. Did you want comparisons? Or were you merely using the horrific death of a serving soldier to prove a point?

BathtimeFunkster · 23/05/2015 09:03

The Sharon Shoesmith case was nothing like this.

But the protection of an institution and the men within it that victimise teenagers is just like the Catholic Church abuse scandal.

The police were complicit in the failure to do anything in Baby P's case too, as I recall. Numerous reports by social workers ignored.

But it was the women to blame when the shit really came down. The social workers whose reports were ignored.

The police who ignored them came out smelling of roses.

Not their fault, guv'nor.

MissDuke · 23/05/2015 09:10

There are definitely problems with the disciplinary process in the police - check out this FOI response by the police service in NI - www.psni.police.uk/psni_officers_suspended.pdf

There shouldn't be police suspended on full pay for YEARS at a time - and then going straight to retirement eventually. Without actually facing any disciplinary procedures. It is very wrong. The procedures need tightened up, and they need to be prepared to sack people when it is warranted.

I don't agree with removing their pension though, simply because it is their savings, however the investigations should be done more quickly and retirement should not be offered as a 'get out' in the interim!