Farmer fired shots over my head, what if anything can I do?

[unexpectedplaces]

Can I ask if anyone knows if this is illegal or not in relation to a right of way across a farmers' land?

To explain what happened and give context. I was walking my dog through a field full of sheep and lambs, dog was at my heel the whole time (no issue whatsoever with the livestock) and we were then away from the sheep and heading for a kissing gate which is where the right of way footpath leads. It crosses a small field and ends up in a village, you can also veer to the left of the kissing gate and continue through the same field ending up at the same point near the village.

I elected to take the left hand path which is about 2 feet away from the official path but divided by a hedge because the small field with the footpath was full of sheep and lambs resting by the gate - I didn't want to disturb them.

I was walking into the sunlight so couldn't see properly but could just about make out a figure a short distance away, a shot was fired into the air followed by 3 more as I walked the length of the hedge. I was really quite worried and hurried through the gate at the end whereupon the shots stopped.

I believe that the gun was either a rifle or a shotgun as the report was pretty loud.

I appreciate that I was off the official footpath strictly speaking but was doing so for purely altruistic reasons (of course he didn't know that).

Should I take this further or was the farmer within his rights? I wish he had just approached me and I could have explained what I was doing and why. The whole incident was pretty unnerving if I'm honest.

Have spoken to a couple of locals who say that the farmer is well known for getting irate about people walking off the right of way.

Any advice please gratefully received

[unexpectedplaces]

You are inferring though that it's perfectly acceptable for a farmer to shoot over someone or up in the air if they are not on the designated footpath, I feel like I've entered some sort of parallel universe where any sane person would feel that protecting a bit of grass was worth risking a serious accident or worse?

A hearty 'Get orf moi land' would suffice surely?

[unexpectedplaces]

I've said all along that he may well have been shooting rabbits, but as I said earlier I suspect you haven't bothered to read the whole thread.

Did you see my description of the fields? Does it make more sense now?

I'm not paranoid thanks for your concern. In fact it was my DH and friend that I told who were originally more angry on my behalf than I was.

[AuntieDee]

Likely conversation if you did report it

Policeman - did you fire your shotgun?
Farmer - yes
Policeman - why?
Farmer - I was shooting rabbits
Policeman - did you fire it north (or whatever direction OP was walking)
Farmer - no, I fired it South. Why was someone hurt?
Policeman - No, no one was hurt. Goodbye.

[unexpectedplaces]

You really haven't read the thread have you, I've explained this a fair few times now.

I'm not after having anybody prosecuted or arrested. I merely wanted the local community police person to be aware that such an incident may have occurred in case there had been similar complaints or were to be so in future. That is it, he will doubtless deny it but I assume if there were to be further or previous complaints that they would be logged and action taken if the police deemed in to be a problem at some point in the future.

For all I know it may have been nothing.
For all I know he may have done it half a dozen times before and may injure someone in the future.

I just don't know but I don't think it would hurt to mention it.

[TheChandler]

AuntieDee Rather than the OP sounding paranoid, me being lucky to survive in the countryside, and you being the fount of such unsurmountable knowledge that you can accurately predict the conversations of police officers investigating crimes, you are beginning to sound as though you are suffering from some kind of anti-social personality disorder, or at least some deficit of social skills. Its not the wild west...provide evidence where UK farmers have been permitted to scare people by shooting near where they are likely to be. As in court cases where they have got away with it. Don't confuse civil law nuisance with criminal law.

[AuntieDee]

You are inferring though that it's perfectly acceptable for a farmer to shoot over someone or up in the air if they are not on the designated footpath,

No I am not - if you had read what I had written (which you accuse me of not doing) I said that the two may just be a coincidence. You are implying that this is what the farmer did when you have absolutely no proof.

Yes I have read the thread fully and yes I understand the mental diagram showing how you strayed from the footpath.

Again the only one who was actually doing anything wrong in this situation, is you - for straying from the footpath and having your dog off lead which is law now around livestock

As you have said yourself - he may well have been was most probably shooting rabbits. Why would you even think someone was trying to shoot you/fire warning shots? I just find that really bizarre.

In the words of the post of above, you would expect that action to be accompanied with 'get awf my land!'

[annielouise]

Unexpected I think you should mention it to the police but you should get on with it. It lessens what you felt if you leave a large gap and the police might question that -i.e. why weren't you bothered to report straight away if you were scared. If you come over as sane they're more likely to believe you, especially if he does it again to someone else and they go on to report him, something like that needs to be on record for future incidents. Regardless of whether they believe you or not they'll go and have a word with him, they'll have to.

[unexpectedplaces]

You are still saying though theoretically that it is fine for him to shoot his gun if I had strayed off the path. Whether he did or not is almost academic at this point, I find it incredulous that you think it would be reasonable.

I too am wondering like TheChandler if you are living in the Wild West where this type of behaviour is acceptable.

I keep repeating that there may be a perfectly innocent explanation, there is no-where on this 14 page long thread that I have said I definitely accuse the farmer of shooting over me/at me.

I will say yet again that the reason for thinking it might have been is due to where I walked and the timing of the shots and more pertinently the subsequent information I have gleaned about his attitude towards his right of way being breached. I don't think it is bizarre just worth questioning.

[AuntieDee]

Wow TheChandle - what a post. You do realise the irony that when you point a finger at someone you have four pointing right back at you?

AuntieDee ..provide evidence where UK farmers have been permitted to scare people by shooting near where they are likely to be... ... Case law where they have got away with it

There is no evidence that this was the farmer's intent. For a case to proceed there would have to be intent and there simply isn't any proof, other than the OPs assumptions.

Unless the farmer wounded the OP, it would only be civil nuisance, not criminal law, as there is no evidence that they were doing anything other than minding their own business.

Would you care to provide case law where the farmer has been prosecuted for scaring a walker without any actual proof. That might be helpful to the OP.

[unexpectedplaces]

annielouise I left a message on the 101 helpline on Friday last week, they've not got back to me yet so I will give them a follow up call right this minute .

[unexpectedplaces]

AuntieDee for the tenth time I'm not interested in seeing the guy prosecuted, I just wanted somebody to know what happened in case it is relevant in future.

[AuntieDee]

You are still saying though theoretically that it is fine for him to shoot his gun if I had strayed off the path.

but you imply it is because you strayed off the path. If he fired warning shots because you strayed off the path then, he would be out of order, but you have no evidence that this is what happened.

[unexpectedplaces]

I've left another message as I know the name of the PCSO in question. I'm going on holiday in a couple of days time so may not be able to update if nothing happens in the interim.

[AuntieDee]

Cross posted sorry

AuntieDee for the tenth time I'm not interested in seeing the guy prosecuted, I just wanted somebody to know what happened in case it is relevant in future.

Relevant to what though? There is no evidence the poor guy has done anything wrong.

[unexpectedplaces]

Well we may never know but at least the police could just make it quite clear that if that was what he was doing then it is unacceptable but of course if he was just shooting rabbits then to just carry on about his business no harm done.

[BareGorillas]

Yeah I would probably say something for that reason, in case there were a number of other occurrences.

But I would really set yourself a new rule that the dog is on the lead while passing so close to livestock - I understand that he's excellently behaved and close too heel, so is my dog but I leash him so he can't be accused later when something happens to livestock which is nothing to do with him, you're just covering yourself really.

[TheChandler]

AuntieDee what on earth is that image supposed to be? Law is comprised of legislation and case law, not "images". You continue to demonstrate your confusion.

the most that the farmer could be 'done' for is 'common law nuisance'

Done for? What on earth are you talking about?

I think theres a bit of a problem with authority here...

If the farmer is causing a problem with shooting in the direction of walkers, then he needs to be spoken to by the police, and warned that his firearms license can be taken away. The point of reporting this is that if a pattern of behaviour is demonstrated, then the police can take effective action.

I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would have any problem with the proper authority dealing with this.

Its irrelevant whether the OP deviated from the path by a few metres, or whether she failed to go closer to where she thought the shooting was coming from!

[unexpectedplaces]

I think you are being deliberately obtuse now AuntieDee.

If he's done nothing wrong that that's fine isn't it - I kind of think that's how the law works in this country.

[TheChandler]

AuntieDee Relevant to what though? There is no evidence the poor guy has done anything wrong.

Again, its very simple. The police investigate, to find evidence. That's their job. Its not up to the OP to go up to people who are shooting and ask them their motives.

There is, for that matter, no evidence that the farmer is a "poor guy".

We get it. We've all heard of Tony Martin being hounded to the edge of reason by burglars, but the OP is a local, walking her dog next to a public footpath. No reason to be shooting across her path.

[landrover]

I think the lead thing is a complete red herring. The ops dog was next to her, the farmer could not possibly have been able to tell whether the dog was on a lead or not! Therefore to warn people off by shooting does seem a dangerous thing to do (IMO)!

[Zampa]

OP - you have done exactly the right thing in calling the police and logging this as a potential issue. It's irrelevant as to whether anything comes of this particular conversation but it may prevent future issues.

Imagine if a child had been walking the dog and had strayed off the official right of way ...

A next door neighbour's (very large) dog used to chase our horses and shooting it (or in the vicinity of its owners) would never have crossed our minds. However, we did end up in the magistrates' court and they moved shortly thereafter ...

[annielouise]

Sorry Unexpected, I'd read the first page when you initially posted and didn't read the rest so wasn't aware you'd phoned 101. This might well be not the first time he's done it, you don't know. Then again as your word against his nothing will probably come of it, but it's logged which safeguards you and others in the future if he did do it.

[unexpectedplaces]

Thank you to the posters with common sense!

No harm can come of the local police knowing, the 'poor guy' has lived here all his life and so I'm sure he will be well known in either a positive or negative capacity. Not for me to decide which category he falls into either but I am perfectly legitimate in expressing my concerns which may or may not be justified.

[unexpectedplaces]

nickers now there's a thought!